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View Full Version : Boost or charge? Please help


ultimateX5
06-13-2010, 06:06 PM
after many weeks of thinking to sell my car or keep it! I've decided to keep it and to have some fun! It's a 97 328is, m52

So I've been looking into boosting or supercharging my e36. I currently have m3 cams,markD software, zf tranny w/m3 clutch, LSD rear end, m50 intake manifold(not installed),fan delete(looking for e-fan)

I'm looking to push around 400-450whp. I currently daily drive this car and would like to keep it a daily driver. I will be doing the work my self and would like to know what route I should go and what I'd need and how much I should be expecting to spend.

Boost or charge?:confused:

theblue
06-14-2010, 05:31 PM
you're doing it wrong. pick how much you want to spend and that will tell you turbo or SC and how much power you can get.

ultimateX5
06-14-2010, 05:42 PM
you're doing it wrong. pick how much you want to spend and that will tell you turbo or SC and how much power you can get.

Well my goal is 400-450whp..I just want to know which route to go..I don't mind spending money on a quality system..in other words.the sky is the limit until I hit 450!...i just wanna know what would be the most reliable way to go and what system would be better...hope you understand :)

theblue
06-14-2010, 06:16 PM
I understand what I think about people who pick random numbers from the sky then ask what is better without any budget....

good luck.

mstearnsy
06-14-2010, 06:49 PM
google Technique Tuning for turbos and Active Autowerke for superchargers.

Steve30
06-14-2010, 06:59 PM
If money isn't really a limiting factor then I would properly build the motor with forged internals, you will be much happier in the long run. I've seen too many high hp cars on stock motors go to shit. My buddy just boosted his K20A2 without even doing studs, gasket or clutch so we'll see how long that will hold up. TT sells some good kits for E36's or you could do a garage build and go with a GT35 or 40 to hit your whp goal.

ultimateX5
06-14-2010, 07:49 PM
google Technique Tuning for turbos and Active Autowerke for superchargers.

Thanks bud, I'll check them out

black bnr32
06-14-2010, 10:27 PM
don't forget The Racer's Market and they're over subframe piping, which might be necessary for a DD

agentM
06-15-2010, 12:54 AM
To get 450 hp from 192hp you should be doing some engine work first like lower compression before F.I.

sloveniaboy
06-15-2010, 01:00 AM
go turbo imo

i went the charger route thinking I would be satisfied with the power but you get used to it.....

bmwconnect
06-16-2010, 11:13 AM
Are you talking 400crank hp or 400- 450whp? because there is a big difference 400 crank= 67hp per cylinder and is not unrealistic figure on stock internals and with a set of ARPs and a good tune you could get there for sure. Now if your talking 400whp-450whp your going to need to upgrade internals, drive shaft, LSD, brakes, fluids, fuel pump ect. takes alot of money to get to a reliable 450whp !!

ultimateX5
06-16-2010, 04:47 PM
Are you talking 400crank hp or 400- 450whp? because there is a big difference 400 crank= 67hp per cylinder and is not unrealistic figure on stock internals and with a set of ARPs and a good tune you could get there for sure. Now if your talking 400whp-450whp your going to need to upgrade internals, drive shaft, LSD, brakes, fluids, fuel pump ect. takes alot of money to get to a reliable 450whp !!

400-450 crank is good enough..i was thinking about boosting/turboing it a month before winter and play around with the boost. that way if i damage or destroy my motor..id have 5 months to reasearch and build the shit outta it..

mstearnsy
06-16-2010, 04:54 PM
400-450 crank is good enough..i was thinking about boosting/turboing it a month before winter and play around with the boost. that way if i damage or destroy my motor..id have 5 months to reasearch and build the shit outta it..

Done deal:
http://techniquetuning.com/e36328turbo.html
$7700 US plus a couple hundred shipping will get you ~367 wheel hp, roughly 430ish at the crank. Well respected tuner and apparently reliable. I was going to turbo my E46 330 with him if I didn't buy my M3.

Sickbimmer
06-16-2010, 09:18 PM
Done deal:
http://techniquetuning.com/e36328turbo.html
$7700 US plus a couple hundred shipping will get you ~367 wheel hp, roughly 430ish at the crank. Well respected tuner and apparently reliable. I was going to turbo my E46 330 with him if I didn't buy my M3.

Now you turbo the M3:)

bmw-dinan36
06-16-2010, 09:36 PM
I had a 450HP skyline GTR before.. turbo is the best to get up to those numbers.. well i havent really had any experience with superchargers.. but i do know they dont lag like turbos. i would say turbo set up .. but for me personlly i like my car Naturally aspirated..

e30blue
06-16-2010, 09:50 PM
LS1 swap

mstearnsy
06-16-2010, 11:41 PM
Now you turbo the M3:)

That'd be fun but buying the M3 has left me tapped out. Besides I still have factory and Certified Series warranty. I have no interest in HPF's style of modding. I want catalytic converters to pass driveclean without hassles, and I don't feel like paying for all their development of race fuel maps and methanol which I will never use, if I ever FI the M3 it will be a set up like Technique offers for 330s: 91 pump gas, turn the car on, and go.

black bnr32
06-17-2010, 10:17 PM
Now if your talking 400whp-450whp your going to need to upgrade internals, drive shaft, LSD, brakes, fluids, fuel pump ect. takes alot of money to get to a reliable 450whp !!

I respectfully disagree. The only thing holding back 450whp is the fuel pump.

Are you advertising without being a sponsor?

Mpellizze30
07-01-2010, 11:05 PM
is there even a charger that would put a 328 to 450 at the wheels i kind of doubt it thats big gains of a pulley i would think u would need to go turbo no smaller than a t3/t4 and if your guna wana build your motor i doubt it handle that power your just asking for trouble

bmwconnect
07-04-2010, 06:55 PM
I respectfully disagree. The only thing holding back 450whp is the fuel pump.

Are you advertising without being a sponsor?

You can disagree but I have seen first hand what 370whp does to a e36 m3 drive shaft if the tires decide to hook up

I know Bruce and I previously worked for him on this forum under a different user name

bmwconnect
07-04-2010, 08:20 PM
is there even a charger that would put a 328 to 450 at the wheels i kind of doubt it thats big gains of a pulley i would think u would need to go turbo no smaller than a t3/t4 and if your guna wana build your motor i doubt it handle that power your just asking for trouble

It would be very difficult to say the least

bmwconnect
07-19-2010, 07:51 PM
need I say more
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/Bear607/IMGP1861-1.jpg

black bnr32
07-19-2010, 09:56 PM
Are you talking 400crank hp or 400- 450whp? because there is a big difference 400 crank= 67hp per cylinder and is not unrealistic figure on stock internals and with a set of ARPs and a good tune you could get there for sure. Now if your talking 400whp-450whp your going to need to upgrade internals, drive shaft, LSD, brakes, fluids, fuel pump ect. takes alot of money to get to a reliable 450whp !!

good pic...hang that thing up in the garage!

BUT, your original post is not fully supported.

bmwconnect
07-20-2010, 01:37 AM
good pic...hang that thing up in the garage!

BUT, your original post is not fully supported.

That was only 360whp that did that...

everlast
07-20-2010, 04:14 AM
And a 5K clutch dump on slicks.

bmwconnect
07-20-2010, 07:51 AM
And a 5K clutch dump on slicks.

good call... I wouldn't doubt it haha

black bnr32
07-20-2010, 11:10 PM
Just pointing out that you mentioned other areas of concern, yet haven't backed them up.

bmwconnect
07-20-2010, 11:39 PM
It's not a matter of backing anything up it's more of a why would you run 450whp with shit stock brakes, stock open diff, stock drive shaft that will break, the life time fluid is no good and will break down in the tranny and diff when you start pushing the car, upgraded fuel pump is a given for the size of injectors you will need for 450whp

Happy?

everlast
07-21-2010, 12:05 AM
I respectfully disagree. The only thing holding back 450whp is the fuel pump.

Are you advertising without being a sponsor?

Then get a fuel pump and make 450whp. I think you're the one with something to prove, so prove it!

bmwconnect
07-21-2010, 12:23 AM
Just pointing out that you mentioned other areas of concern, yet haven't backed them up.

Is your vortech m3 baring the color of yellow by any chance? you remind me of someone else I once knew *wiggle*

black bnr32
07-21-2010, 01:30 AM
just trying to keep the info honest...nothing to prove here

The 450whp S52 recipe is relatively proven, no?

-Vortech T-trim @ ~ 15psi or 50k rpm
-42lb injectors
-Bosch 803 MAF
-AA or Nick G off the shelf tuning
-RMS headers, your choice of dual 2.5" or single 3" exhaust such as AA race or Euro Supersprint
-RMS aftercooler
-any quality example of water injection
-M50 intake manifold
-schrick cams
-ken belle boost-a-pump or Walbro 255

bmwconnect
07-21-2010, 01:48 AM
just trying to keep the info honest...nothing to prove here

The 450whp S52 recipe is relatively proven, no?

-Vortech T-trim @ ~ 15psi or 50k rpm
-42lb injectors
-Bosch 803 MAF
-AA or Nick G off the shelf tuning
-RMS headers, your choice of dual 2.5" or single 3" exhaust such as AA race or Euro Supersprint
-RMS aftercooler
-any quality example of water injection
-M50 intake manifold
-schrick cams
-ken belle boost-a-pump or Walbro 255

so you list a bunch of expensive upgrades after telling me you only need a fuel pump lol *th-up*

everlast
07-21-2010, 04:22 AM
I'm confused. What was this thread even about?


LOL

black bnr32
07-21-2010, 09:55 PM
Now if your talking 400whp-450whp your going to need to upgrade internals, drive shaft, LSD, brakes, fluids, fuel pump ect.

still just respectfully disagreeing to this statement...everything in this statement except the fuel pump has been proven to be 450whp capable

mstearnsy
07-21-2010, 10:07 PM
still just respectfully disagreeing to this statement...everything in this statement except the fuel pump has been proven to be 450whp capable

If you're more than doubling the HP you'd need to do brakes and suspension without a doubt. The stock units don't stop you from making the HP but might stop you from staying alive long enough to enjoy it!

bmwconnect
07-21-2010, 10:18 PM
/\ what he said

mstearnsy
07-21-2010, 10:23 PM
http://www.techniquetuning.com/e36328turbo.html

367 whp for a 328is Stage 2 turbo, lowered compression, stock internal engine. 450 whp will definitely demand a built motor. 400 whp could be in reach but with stock internals I'd question reliability.

gnarfy
08-08-2010, 11:01 AM
I run a stage 2 TT kit since 10k Miles... no problem at all, did autoX / Drag few times, near 400WHP/400TQ, and nothing broke... no driveshaft, no diff, nada...

only thing I did to prevent is I installed a AA DSB (Differential Support Bracket)...

iverson03tj
11-23-2010, 02:00 AM
Also what are u gonna do with the car? like just street or street and track time... bimmers arent straight line cars.. there ment to handle.. and the supercharger delivers the power and no lag... also its a bit more reliable and u got less to worry about the small things that can go wrong....

I personaly love the aa kit... its fun and its tamed// IMO... also make sure u re-enforce the subframe,.. and i think you should do other mods before FI... like suspension and brakes... atleast to m3 brakes.. good pads.. fluids, ss lines and remmeber u need atleast a stage II clutch kit from bimmerworld... i think the LTW fw with the m5 clutch.. it should hold that power well.. also the pump, also good suspension components are key.. like stiffer sway bars, a nice lsd if its FI i would go with 2.91 lsd... cuz the 3.23 is really bad on highways:P... the m52 is a good motor to boost... also a thicker head gasket and arp studs are good
Remember its not just the speed.. u need a way to control the car and slow it down..

Mr_Bimmer
08-08-2011, 09:15 PM
Also what are u gonna do with the car? like just street or street and track time... bimmers arent straight line cars.. there ment to handle.. and the supercharger delivers the power and no lag... also its a bit more reliable and u got less to worry about the small things that can go wrong....

I personaly love the aa kit... its fun and its tamed// IMO... also make sure u re-enforce the subframe,.. and i think you should do other mods before FI... like suspension and brakes... atleast to m3 brakes.. good pads.. fluids, ss lines and remmeber u need atleast a stage II clutch kit from bimmerworld... i think the LTW fw with the m5 clutch.. it should hold that power well.. also the pump, also good suspension components are key.. like stiffer sway bars, a nice lsd if its FI i would go with 2.91 lsd... cuz the 3.23 is really bad on highways:P... the m52 is a good motor to boost... also a thicker head gasket and arp studs are good
Remember its not just the speed.. u need a way to control the car and slow it down..

This guy has said the first intelligent thing in this post. Many considerations are needed when boosting a car. First, budget is key. You NEED to know how much you can spend, nobody likes going to the fridge to get the last beer that isn't there, because you couldn't afford the 6 pack cause you can barely afford to feed yourself. Second, reliability seems to be a priority for you, which is good. However, things I'd start researching would be how many others have a set up similair to what you want, what have they done to maintain reliability, how much driving has been done with the extra abuse of the forced induction system on the components they have. The picture of the driveshaft all twisted up is to big of an in your face example of what can go wrong. Imagine being on the HW, some asshole like me comes up in my TT z32, and you want to flex your penis. SO you hop on the throttle, than SNAP. Driveshaft twists in 2, rips off half your exhaust, throws parts through the windshield of the guy behind you, digs into the pavement and tosses your ass into 2 other lanes of traffic. Wanna know how I know that can happen lol? Point of story, the amount of money you are thinking of spending, double it. Because there are other key points of modifications that need to be done to ensure proper driveability and reliability. If you can go fast, you want to be able to stop fast. You've got to be able to put the extra power you make, on the ground, or its just wasting rubber. LSD rearend is a must if you want to actually get off the line without busting axles or roasting too much tires. Apparently driveshafts are a problem in your car. What about stiffer subframe bushings to help transfer more power to the ground, suspension for the same reason. I havent even talked about engine internals yet. Unless you want to run 94+ octane and water/methanol injection at all times and the biggest effing intercooler made, the amount of hp you want won't be achieved reliably on stock pistons at the very least. Lower compression pistons give a better tuning bubble, and allow you to run pump gas you can afford. I can go on and on and on about this shit. I've built several boosted hondas (go ahead, haha laugh.) I work on alot of supercharged go fast boats and my most current project I just sold was a 300zx twin turbo I built. I will use that as an example. I aswell wanted about 400+ hp at the wheels. The turbo charger and fuel injector kit was 4 grand, capable of supporting 550 RWHP. Thats another nice thing about turbos, want more power, turn up the boost controller. Thats all fine, 4 grand no big deal bam, ups the kit to my door. Than, upgraded clutch, flywheel, boost controller, ecu and tuning, suspension, bushings, driveshaft, bigger exhaust, dual intakes, cams. The list goes on, the the final price tag is ten grand. Thats all labour done by myself. ANother thing, if you work full time and require a vehicle, you'll need another one to drive while you do the project, and theres always maintenance to do on that likely aswell. By all means, I dont mean to scare you off a cool project, I've done alot of them but I've learned to be prepaired, and not to be afraid to dig deep in the pockets if your savings permits. Anyways, to sum up this way too long reply, chances are you will spend the same amount of money trying to make your car fast, as you would buying one thats already fast. You can buy a 300zx TT left hand drive canadian car in good shape for 11 grand, spend a grand and have about 350 rwhp. I promise theres not alot on the road that can touch those nissans, they are geared excellent and are wicked fast. Also, one last side note, Naturally aspirated is the expensive way to go slow. :)

sparf328
11-06-2011, 02:39 PM
i just spent a year changing around my dinan s/c setup, 42lbs injectors, 803 hfm, m50 manifold, rms headers, after cooler, full straight pipe from the headers, walboro 255, diff mounts, fan delete with spal replacement, zionsville competition cooling kit, tms oil cooler, blah blah blah, i forget the size of my pulley atm but I'm running around 11-12 psi,which i thought would be enough for me, don't get me wrong the car pulls,(soon to be water meth kit. and going to 14 psi this summer ) and would pull a shit load more with a 3.64 in the back, but I'm bored already, i want to break loose in third ( not literally but i want something scary fast ) if i could do it over again, i would have saved all the money from my intense parts list, drove the car the way it was, bought something else and run a turbo setup or lsx/t56 which is what I'm doing next in an e36 leaning towards the chevy, because turning the car one with a nice lumpy cam and having that deep exhaust note and growling popcorn popping idle coming out of a lil 3 series would be priceless, and just straight up ****ing awesome

IMO go the turbo route all day **** s/c's and this is coming from a guy that has a blown s52.....

Mpellizze30
11-06-2011, 09:31 PM
Nothing beats a hpf kit on a e46 m3 in my opinion! With a turbo you could have a 700hp car and actually get better gas milege when not in boost and then let loose when you need to. With a charger your always boosting so your always draining the gas tank at an accelerated rate.
I think its kind of a shame to put a chev motor in a bmw. I love chevys dont get me wrong i drive one everyday but a its just not right in a bmw. Bmw has won numerous engine of the year awards there and they have a wide selection of motors out there. If you want that gut wrenching power and huge displacement go with a s85. If you want to save some doh and have similar performance there doing some crazy stuff with turbo m50's. The problem is that that car is not built for a 500lb engine, Its way to heavy and the car will handle like *hit. I guess if you want a quarter mile car thats not an issue but thats not a bmw! the axles and subframes cant take that much power without serious reinforcement. if you want that kind of power i would recomend a corvette. Even a base c6 is just retarded itll smoke a brand new m3 like its standing still. I struggled for a long time with the same issue and heres what ive concluded: bmw's are not ment to be 10 second cars. There built to have the best of both worlds (Performance and luxury) and they do a pretty good job of it!

Mpellizze30
11-06-2011, 09:36 PM
Mr Bimmer did i read that right? do you have a twin turbo s50b32?

iverson03tj
11-11-2011, 12:23 PM
i have owned and built 2 turbo cars, and its just a pile of headaches and personally i like my s/ced e36, its mad reliable plus im currently in the process of rebuilding the whole engine. The only thing i dont like about the e36's are there stupid cooling systems!... but this spring i ordered alot of cooling system components that should help me out!...

Dinanstu
12-22-2011, 01:20 PM
New guy here....
Centrifugal supercharging is the way to go. Dead reliable, and easy on stock head. When you get into it, its there. Great for track use and as a daily driver. Always room to upgrade as what has been said.
If you want a 400-450 whp car..that's going to cost you....
...
A HPF stage 3 is going to suck gas like nuts unless your driving at 2500 rpm all day...
:)

BimmaLova
04-19-2013, 04:42 PM
I'm trying to get Mark D contact info please