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View Full Version : twinscrew set-ups/kits


old skoo
01-10-2010, 06:37 PM
hey f/i guys im looking to supercharge my s50 M . and i want to do a twinscrew set-up because im not a big fan of all the pipping that goes along with turbo systems.so i was wondering if anyone knows any twinscrew kits/system , or if any ones selling 1 .

Steve30
01-10-2010, 06:55 PM
Check bimmerforums, there was a guy selling one about a week ago (1.7L twinscrew kit from eurosport) Also, eurosport just released their new twinscrew kit and bumped the blower up to 2.2 or 2.3L i think? but the price is pretty high. It's like $11, 500. I'm looking to twinscrew my s52 too... but it does seem a bit pricey. AA still has the gen 1 twinscrew from eurosport and that's a little cheaper @ around $9500.

RMPMOTORS
01-10-2010, 09:52 PM
I installed a Eurosport kit a few years ago, its a well built kit and makes good HP!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLmbD9isHXc

old skoo
01-10-2010, 11:17 PM
yea i was looking into that and wow ! thats pricey , i can buy a car for that price lol

Check bimmerforums, there was a guy selling one about a week ago (1.7L twinscrew kit from eurosport) Also, eurosport just released their new twinscrew kit and bumped the blower up to 2.2 or 2.3L i think? but the price is pretty high. It's like $11, 500. I'm looking to twinscrew my s52 too... but it does seem a bit pricey. AA still has the gen 1 twinscrew from eurosport and that's a little cheaper @ around $9500.

Steve30
01-10-2010, 11:37 PM
Have you looked at any centrifugal charger kits? They are a lot cheaper than the twin screw setup and still make good power.

everlast
01-11-2010, 04:12 AM
What's wrong the piping, really though? No or little piping just means you probably don't have an intercooler. If you do, its water to air and that's a whole lotta additional piping.

I wouldn't let piping be an issue. It's not as bad as you think to route that stuff around and very easy to work with. I'd be looking at the power goals, what you'll be using the power for and how the car is used.

Centrifugal kits tend to 'build boost' the same way a turbo does, since the effective ratio is so high. Roots style are positive displacement, and they really help with torque down low but are inefficient at high revs, meaning they create a lot of heat in the air, possibly bringing down top end power considerably.

Jon@Bimmersport
01-11-2010, 11:18 AM
I know of a guy who did one here, but I think his motor popped, twice to add...I beleive hes on the board, and he was looking to sell it last time he came by.

Although I been in his car - it wasnt as impressive as:

S52 turbo (had TT Stage 2, but been in a GT35R setup not TT but dammn its fast!)
S52 W/ T-trim vortech (my current project)

The most impressive is the NEW HKS based S/C kit from AA...we just finished a Level 2 on an MZ3 and it is the best of both worlds (power of a turbo, drivability of an S/C setup). I am actually posting up pic now.

AA's twin screw isnt offered anymore.

Steve30
01-11-2010, 02:29 PM
Did you get any dyno #'s from the HKS kit?

Jon@Bimmersport
01-11-2010, 03:35 PM
No but it put down a nice 370ish in humid FL weather.

old skoo
01-11-2010, 05:07 PM
well its beacuse i like it clean n simple

What's wrong the piping, really though? No or little piping just means you probably don't have an intercooler. If you do, its water to air and that's a whole lotta additional piping.

I wouldn't let piping be an issue. It's not as bad as you think to route that stuff around and very easy to work with. I'd be looking at the power goals, what you'll be using the power for and how the car is used.

Centrifugal kits tend to 'build boost' the same way a turbo does, since the effective ratio is so high. Roots style are positive displacement, and they really help with torque down low but are inefficient at high revs, meaning they create a lot of heat in the air, possibly bringing down top end power considerably.

everlast
01-11-2010, 05:25 PM
I totally know what you mean, but you can have clean and simple piping, especially if you pay to get aluminum pipes welded and powdercoated; it looks *really* nice and is not expensive at all.

Steve30
01-11-2010, 05:33 PM
It is a lot more simple and if your not after ridiculous hp numbers, then a supercharger is the way to go. I've been reading about FI for a few weeks now and am set on supercharging because It seems to give the car a comfortable power to weight ratio. If I went turbo then I would eventually go overboard with power... What Jon has said about AA's new HKS kit makes it sound very appealing and seems like the best option. The stage 1 is pretty cheap compared to a twin screw setup and upgrading to the stage 2 yields similar horsepower results as a twin screw. The real question is what the intended use of the car is because they both put out power differently. If tracking the car is your biggest concern then I would say go with the twin screw because its strong point is low to mid range torque. In the end both options are reliable but twin screws have longer maintenance intervals.

Jon@Bimmersport
01-11-2010, 05:51 PM
If your dedicated track, NA only...if occasional..then anyway you go, better water cooling and OIL cooling is an absolute necessity especially for turbo (considering the S/C uses an independent oil system with cooler). Theres a lot of things to going FI people dont get, it doesnt stop at the S/C kit. Oil coolers, better higher flow/capacity cooling systems, clutches etc are all needed when stuffing double the power your engine was designed to make (or in other words - double stress, and more heat).

Steve30
01-11-2010, 06:22 PM
^^ very true and important to consider those additional costs!

JUS_CRZN
01-20-2010, 03:20 PM
Yep, broke all those things.

Jon@Bimmersport
01-20-2010, 06:11 PM
check this out guys
http://maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1383477#post1383477

black bnr32
01-23-2010, 12:09 PM
The most impressive is the NEW HKS based S/C kit from AA...we just finished a Level 2 on an MZ3 and it is the best of both worlds (power of a turbo, drivability of an S/C setup)


Sorry Jon, I have to correct you. The new HKS set up is not an improvement in the illusive "best of both worlds" search. It is very, very similar to the outgoing Rotrex set up and should be known to put out very, very similar performance. I mean, you've installed both so I'm kind of confused on why you think this, no offense!

That said, the kit seems to be top notch!

OP: An aftercooled centrifugal supercharger set up will be just as complex as a turbo set up. A twin screw set up *should* be simpler (I haven't owned one).

sthomas
01-23-2010, 12:57 PM
If tracking the car is your biggest concern then I would say go with the twin screw because its strong point is low to mid range torque.

Tracked cars do not need 'low to mid range torque'. Quite the opposite.

If your dedicated track, NA only...if occasional..then anyway you go, better water cooling and OIL cooling is an absolute necessity especially for turbo (considering the S/C uses an independent oil system with cooler). Theres a lot of things to going FI people dont get, it doesnt stop at the S/C kit. Oil coolers, better higher flow/capacity cooling systems, clutches etc are all needed when stuffing double the power your engine was designed to make (or in other words - double stress, and more heat).

It really depends on what you end up doing, and what you want out of it. I've been tracking my e36 (3.2L OBD1 conversion with RMS Stage 1 kit) for a few years now and it runs fine. Certainly the power drops off as the heat sets in on the track - since Stage 1 does not have an intercooler or injection. I don't run an oil cooler (the Vortec S/C uses the engine oil) - but I do use good oil and change it often. I ran the original rad until quite recently (a bent fan-blade took it out last Sept and Mosport). I also installed the e34 M5 clutch with a light-weight flywheel from UUC.

MarkD tuned the motor, so I am already running rich enough to avoid detonating the motor at the track. However, I am toying with the idea of alcohol injection to help with the heat-soak (which is only apparent on the track).

Jon@Bimmersport
01-25-2010, 05:29 PM
Sorry Jon, I have to correct you. The new HKS set up is not an improvement in the illusive "best of both worlds" search. It is very, very similar to the outgoing Rotrex set up and should be known to put out very, very similar performance. I mean, you've installed both so I'm kind of confused on why you think this, no offense!

That said, the kit seems to be top notch!

OP: An aftercooled centrifugal supercharger set up will be just as complex as a turbo set up. A twin screw set up *should* be simpler (I haven't owned one).

No offense taken,

Your conclusion is based off of what information I have to ask...? They are known to put out similar peak #'s in kit form, driving wise the HKS is known for more low-midrange power which will carry up top. That is how I got to my answer, although the flow charts seem the same...when going to a stage 2 unit the HKS based car will outperform the rotrex. I havent tested back to back on the track (or driven any on the track for that matter), but this is comming from the engineer at Active. For a street car, the HKS will be a much better choice. Remember, 90% of the people buying these products daily drive their car...given my statement, what would you choose? Either choice does not make one or the other right or wrong as this whole FI world comes down to personal preference. One thing you are forgetting is beyond what is offered now as a kit and can be attained in the future. I am on the fence about throwing away my vortech based kits I have...as I can spin the HKS double the speed of the vortech I use.

Sthomas,

I never questioned the possibility of running without said items but why? The only other one I know running a heavier setup than yourself would be Tommy, and was running a non vanos setup (then again the rods are huge compared to M3 and can handle more stress over a longer time). I would run the oil cooler on any FI setup, for the same reasons BMW incorporated it into any factory NA car made for performance driving - not for liability, but for long term durability. Again, there is no argument as to what should be done. Then again, with your engine setup you are increasing your engine output by ~50%...opposed to my statement based on almost 100% increase in power.

e30_kid89
01-25-2010, 05:57 PM
One thing in regards to oil cooling which does a lot more harm than good I notice on street-driven S/C e36s is nobody uses an oil cooler thermostat which is vital since the oil will take a really long time to warm up to properly lubricate and may cool down too much while doing highway driving again making the oil loose its ability to properly lubricate. The S54 oil filter housing has a built-in one for a reason.

Without the thermostat most guys with primarily street-driven cars are better off without the cooler.

black bnr32
01-26-2010, 01:43 PM
No offense taken,

Your conclusion is based off of what information I have to ask...?

Just Mad dog 20/20's thread on bimmerforums.

black bnr32
01-26-2010, 01:45 PM
I am on the fence about throwing away my vortech based kits I have...as I can spin the HKS double the speed of the vortech I use.



Looks like the HKS is limited to ~ 15psi IIRC.

Edit: not totally apples to apples given the mods, but here's Mad dog's HKS vs the AA Rotrex dyno graphs. The lower half of the dynos are really similar, no?
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1305271&page=13

also,
C38-81:
90k rpm max impeller speed
952.5 CFM max flow
1:7.5 drive unit ratio

HKS GTS8550:
100k rpm max impeller speed
918 CFM max flow
1:9.4 drive unit ratio

Jon@Bimmersport
01-26-2010, 02:04 PM
If you are refering to page 13, the dyno graph is of v1 tune and v2 for his HKS kit. Mad dog didnt install both kits for a back to back comparison. One of the reasons for his top end hiccup was his plugs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/xsverdict/GarrettHKS-2RevisedTune.jpg?t=1258844153

Also if you read the thread, many people agree to the conclusion that the HKS does produce more midrange...including the OP your qouting. Which is why AA chose this kit, to give an option to those who do want more low/midrange power compared to traditional centri based kits.

The C38 you listed is for E46 M3 FYI..E36 kits use C3871, now the only one using C38-81 is the 330 based kits.

Jon@Bimmersport
01-26-2010, 07:41 PM
Just to add:

C38-71 flows 900cfm @15degrees C @ MAX impeller speed

(CFM calculation is Kg/s X 1731.8)

Anyways, what you want to compare is a flow chart...not CFM at max impeller speed as the blowers usually arent spun at max impellar speed on an off the shelf kit.

Daxxas
07-19-2010, 10:18 PM
Good rule to follow, Take the number you think it's going to cost you to build and tripple it. By the time you add up all the hardware, tuning, and jewelry for the wife. If you think it'll cost 5k, it'll probably be 10-15k by the time your hair stops falling out. That being said, i'm quite happy with the power my s50 with the vortech s/c.

iverson03tj
12-03-2010, 12:03 AM
One thing in regards to oil cooling which does a lot more harm than good I notice on street-driven S/C e36s is nobody uses an oil cooler thermostat which is vital since the oil will take a really long time to warm up to properly lubricate and may cool down too much while doing highway driving again making the oil loose its ability to properly lubricate. The S54 oil filter housing has a built-in one for a reason.

Without the thermostat most guys with primarily street-driven cars are better off without the cooler.

Where can i get a oil cooler thermostat and is it hard to install?