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Guelphguy
12-06-2009, 10:44 PM
I've had a few E34's but looking for something more updated....seem kinda partial to the 5's but always wanted to drive an 04/05 745..but I think that the reliability kinda scares me away from them....almost 40, a family guy, so not really sure what's next that is a luxury bmw but not too maintenance crazy??

Axxe
12-06-2009, 10:46 PM
You can get a nice E39 for that coin.

Guelphguy
12-06-2009, 10:57 PM
I heard that some E39's are little heavy on the repair needs?

Blackedout95
12-06-2009, 11:08 PM
Id say 03-05 E46 with like 80k on it.

arek
12-06-2009, 11:32 PM
04-05 bmw x3

aspen540
12-07-2009, 09:39 AM
any bimmer is maintenance intensive, as i'm sure you know. E39 540 is a great car if you are preventative maintenance concious. Plus there are many places to find used and market parts and imo way better ride than 3 series. with 20K you can buy a decent late model e39 and still have money left over for maintenance fund. i say take plunge and enjoy- you wont' regret it

Darkness95m3
12-07-2009, 10:12 AM
I've had a few E34's but looking for something more updated....seem kinda partial to the 5's but always wanted to drive an 04/05 745..but I think that the reliability kinda scares me away from them....almost 40, a family guy, so not really sure what's next that is a luxury bmw but not too maintenance crazy??

7 series are for those who have big pockets. Nice cars expensive for repairs.

T.Dot_E30
12-07-2009, 10:31 AM
FYI: A late model 530i, was the most reliable e39. There are alot of nice M Packages ones also, I almost bought an Imola Red M-Packaged '03 e39 530i.

Ceeker
12-07-2009, 10:35 AM
FYI: A late model 530i, was the most reliable e39. There are alot of nice M Packages ones also, I almost bought an Imola Red M-Packaged '03 e39 530i.

was told the same by BMW technicians. 530-e39 is great reliable car and one of the last models. Under priced too and still looks pretty modern.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-07-2009, 10:38 AM
I've had a few E34's but looking for something more updated....seem kinda partial to the 5's but always wanted to drive an 04/05 745..but I think that the reliability kinda scares me away from them....almost 40, a family guy, so not really sure what's next that is a luxury bmw but not too maintenance crazy??

1999+ E38 740i....

Comfortable, still modern looking and IMO sexy, easy to work on yourself. Parts aren't expensive.... and they're considered to be pretty reliable.

It's the perfect car IMO, plus you can pick up a very nice one for about $15k.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41580

cormier
12-07-2009, 10:46 AM
no one suggests e30 m3?

bmwm5lover
12-07-2009, 10:51 AM
no one suggests e30 m3?

Are you dumb?
Get off the e30 M3 ballsack plz. The world of BMW doesn't stop there.

cormier
12-07-2009, 10:56 AM
ha get your balls back in your pants, its just an idea

Are you dumb?
Get off the e30 M3 ballsack plz. The world of BMW doesn't stop there.

T.Dot_E30
12-07-2009, 11:14 AM
ha get your balls back in your pants, its just an idea

He suggested he wanted something more updated than an e34 , he has a family and is looking for something reliable........learn to read.



He also obviously wants something bigger than a 3-series, that is why he is looking at e38s and e39s.

cormier
12-07-2009, 11:18 AM
*sigh* so much anger...whatever helps you guys sleep, again it was just an idea...

ACS_DAN
12-07-2009, 11:21 AM
Are you absolutely stuck on the new car being a BMW? There are a couple other European cars with the space you need and at that price tag. Audi's, Volvo's?

T.Dot_E30
12-07-2009, 11:35 AM
*sigh* so much anger...whatever helps you guys sleep, again it was just an idea...

Ignore what your teachers tell you, there are stupid ideas.

bmwm5lover
12-07-2009, 11:41 AM
Ignore what your teachers tell you, there are stupid ideas.

Thank you Trev.

Gamite
12-07-2009, 12:08 PM
as long as you keep up general maintenance, keep an eye on things, I don't think either E39 or E38 are bad choices at all. For your price range, you can find very nice vehicles of each kind.

I've heard that E38 generally has more problems than E39 (which is weird because they share so many parts)

I would say most common problem of the two if you are looking at the 4.4 V8 would be the engine mounts, which lead to your rad neck breaking.

But the good thing about your price range is you can pick up one with lower milage, which should be in a lot better shape.


Since the F10 5 series is around the corner, you might want to wait for that release, as 5 series prices will drop dramatically when it becomes available.

carjoe
12-07-2009, 12:14 PM
I was in the same boat this summer. Bought an E39 540i.

I looked at E46's, high mileage E90's, A4's, Legacy GT's...

kamus
12-07-2009, 02:03 PM
1999+ E38 740i....

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41580

mmm delicious - i remember this appeared as a Bond car the year it first came out in Europe.. *mw*

Mystikal
12-07-2009, 02:38 PM
FYI: A late model 530i, was the most reliable e39. There are alot of nice M Packages ones also, I almost bought an Imola Red M-Packaged '03 e39 530i.

This.

Anything 7 will terrify you when things start breaking. And they will, fast.

Bullet Ride
12-07-2009, 03:55 PM
+1 on the E39 530i. I'm an advocate for these cars :cool:

I've driven an E39 530ia with the sport package for a few years and it is a great car. Decently quick, firm sporty ride yet still comfortable, and with the rack and pinion, one of the best steering feels I've experienced so far. Also as stated before reliable and undervalued. In the 5 years that we've had the car the only thing that had to be replaced outside of regular maintenance is a sway bar end link and a cam sensor.

lvan
12-07-2009, 06:31 PM
E39 M530I > 740i.


Better resale
better reliability
better handling
easier on your pocket
newer engine


That would be my vote.

Nick_V
12-07-2009, 09:49 PM
in the 20K range I would be looking at a 330i ZHP. They are kinda hard to find but from everything I've ever read or heard, they seem to be the closest thing to a no-compromise BMW. And realistically, they aren't that much smaller than an E34 (what you're used to) inside. You'll give up a bit of trunk space though.

propr'one
12-07-2009, 10:10 PM
e39 or e38 (5 series or 7 series)

I really think if you like the bigger cars you'll love the seven's. In your shoes i'd probably get a 530 if you're not a speed demon and just want something fun and classy to get around in.

Guelphguy
12-07-2009, 10:13 PM
Are you absolutely stuck on the new car being a BMW? There are a couple other European cars with the space you need and at that price tag. Audi's, Volvo's?

Maybe no comparison, but I went from the E34, to driving an 07 Chrysler 300C, lots of HP, nice car but I miss the feel of a BMW, now I know that Chrysler is not an Audi or Volvo but I also spend time with Bruno (a BMW tech) and I also feel that I've gotten to know and understand BMW....so as odd as it sounds...I miss it!!

Anyone want to trade an 07' Chrysler 300C for a BMW...lol....the 300 is in pretty much the best shape that a 300 could be in....but I just miss the BMW.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-07-2009, 11:53 PM
This.

Anything 7 will terrify you when things start breaking. And they will, fast.

Parts for an E38 are cheap... they're no more expensive then for an E39.... Many parts are shared through out.

Darkness95m3
12-08-2009, 09:55 AM
1999+ E38 740i....

Comfortable, still modern looking and IMO sexy, easy to work on yourself. Parts aren't expensive.... and they're considered to be pretty reliable.

It's the perfect car IMO, plus you can pick up a very nice one for about $15k.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41580

Sweet ride, my favourite 7 series hands down.

Blades
12-08-2009, 12:13 PM
04-05 bmw x3

find me one of these for 20k in good condition and I will buy it.

T.Dot_E30
12-08-2009, 12:33 PM
find me one of these for 20k in good condition and I will buy it.

Quick search turns up alot of results, below are only 5 quick examples.

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-SUVs-trucks-vans-SUV-crossover-2006-BMW-X3-PREMIUM-PACKAGE-W0QQAdIdZ173629004

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-SUVs-trucks-vans-SUV-crossover-2004-BMW-X3-PREMIUM-ACTIVITY-PACKAGE-W0QQAdIdZ173625273

http://autotrader.ca/used_cars_Light+Truck+&+SUVs_details/KITCHENER_Ontario_2004_BMW_X3+2.5L+/+Winter+Pkg+/+Panoramic+Roof_2548087.html?srcid=6146846&source=27&pgno=1&srt=7&CompanyID=ON20080331102352937&r=ontario&ad-attributes=photos,,



http://autotrader.ca/used_cars_Light+Truck+&+SUVs_details/MARKHAM_Ontario_2005_BMW_X3+3.0i+Sport+Utility+4D_ 3119215.html?srcid=6572646&source=27&pgno=1&srt=7&CompanyID=ON20090607183352480&r=ontario&ad-attributes=photos

http://autotrader.ca/used_cars_Light+Truck+&+SUVs_details/MISSISSAUGA_Ontario_2004_BMW_X3+2.5i+Sport+Utility +4D_2607410.html?srcid=6189082&source=27&pgno=1&srt=7&CompanyID=ON20070723112006041&r=ontario&ad-attributes=photos,,priority

E30 Girl
12-08-2009, 12:40 PM
1999+ E38 740i....

Comfortable, still modern looking and IMO sexy, easy to work on yourself. Parts aren't expensive.... and they're considered to be pretty reliable.

It's the perfect car IMO, plus you can pick up a very nice one for about $15k.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41580

If anyone is interested I have one really nice well maintained 15k...lol

Blades
12-08-2009, 01:37 PM
Quick search turns up alot of results, below are only 5 quick examples.

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-SUVs-trucks-vans-SUV-crossover-2006-BMW-X3-PREMIUM-PACKAGE-W0QQAdIdZ173629004

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-SUVs-trucks-vans-SUV-crossover-2004-BMW-X3-PREMIUM-ACTIVITY-PACKAGE-W0QQAdIdZ173625273

http://autotrader.ca/used_cars_Light+Truck+&+SUVs_details/KITCHENER_Ontario_2004_BMW_X3+2.5L+/+Winter+Pkg+/+Panoramic+Roof_2548087.html?srcid=6146846&source=27&pgno=1&srt=7&CompanyID=ON20080331102352937&r=ontario&ad-attributes=photos,,



http://autotrader.ca/used_cars_Light+Truck+&+SUVs_details/MARKHAM_Ontario_2005_BMW_X3+3.0i+Sport+Utility+4D_ 3119215.html?srcid=6572646&source=27&pgno=1&srt=7&CompanyID=ON20090607183352480&r=ontario&ad-attributes=photos

http://autotrader.ca/used_cars_Light+Truck+&+SUVs_details/MISSISSAUGA_Ontario_2004_BMW_X3+2.5i+Sport+Utility +4D_2607410.html?srcid=6189082&source=27&pgno=1&srt=7&CompanyID=ON20070723112006041&r=ontario&ad-attributes=photos,,priority

:eek:


*th-up* damn .. didnt know

T.Dot_E30
12-08-2009, 02:34 PM
:eek:

*th-up* damn .. didnt know

Now you have to buy one :D

*th-up*

Blades
12-08-2009, 03:22 PM
Now you have to buy one :D

*th-up*

I would have .. 2 weeks to late :(

I ended up getting a 2005 Kia Sorento for 12k



p.s. I hate you for showing me this

330Hi
12-08-2009, 04:47 PM
Are X3's reliable?

I remember reading about issues with them on some BMW forums..?! Sorry cant remember where though!?

NOTORIOUS VR
12-08-2009, 04:56 PM
^^^ They're not very good looking? :P

Blades
12-08-2009, 06:05 PM
^^ better looking then x5 (older ones) but not to spacious

Mystikal
12-08-2009, 06:34 PM
Parts for an E38 are cheap... they're no more expensive then for an E39.... Many parts are shared through out.

Price out an alternator. Or transmission rebuild. Or entire cooling system refresh. Or one of the 2 billion ECUs that will die.

I can't imagine anyone realistically thinking E38s are a smart choice.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-08-2009, 07:13 PM
Price out an alternator. Or transmission rebuild. Or entire cooling system refresh. Or one of the 2 billion ECUs that will die.

I can't imagine anyone realistically thinking E38s are a smart choice.

Ok, only after you price out the same on an E39 :rolleyes:

You point isn't valid, since both cars generally share the same parts.

A tranny rebuild is around $1800, that's not really expensive and inline with pretty much any auto tranny. My friend just had that done on his E38.

Everything you listed can go wrong any car.

E38's and E39's are considered equally soild and reliable cars for the most part.

Mystikal
12-08-2009, 07:52 PM
Ok, only after you price out the same on an E39 :rolleyes:

You point isn't valid, since both cars generally share the same parts.

A tranny rebuild is around $1800, that's not really expensive and inline with pretty much any auto tranny. My friend just had that done on his E38.

Everything you listed can go wrong any car.

E38's and E39's are considered equally soild and reliable cars for the most part.

lol.

Looking over the Consumer Reports data, which has 1.4 million annual responses btw, one of the only cars less reliable than an E38 is a B5 Audi.

E39 6cyl cars have good ratings. Surprise surprise.

///MG
12-08-2009, 09:12 PM
I plan on my next car being in that price range... 20-24K.

I plan on getting the car in April/May of next year and... I don't think it will be a BMW. Although I love BMWs (and still plan to getting a convertible E36 M3 or E46 when I can afford a 2nd car) I think that my full-size luxury sedan will be an 05-06 Acura TL. (I don't think the Type-S is worth the extra 6K-8K) but a low mileage (around 60-80K) fully loaded TL with Nav can be aquired for around 20K-25K today. I'm yet to drive it and do more research but as of today... that's the car I'd be putting 20Gs on.

GL with your purchase.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-08-2009, 10:05 PM
lol.

Looking over the Consumer Reports data, which has 1.4 million annual responses btw, one of the only cars less reliable than an E38 is a B5 Audi.

E39 6cyl cars have good ratings. Surprise surprise.

Yes because Consumer Report ratings are the end all and be all :rolleyes:

I guess since you don't have any first hand experience with them that's all you have to go by... it's ok, I understand.

T.Dot_E30
12-08-2009, 10:44 PM
Yes because Consumer Report ratings are the end all and be all :rolleyes:

I guess since you don't have any first hand experience with them that's all you have to go by... it's ok, I understand.

It's better than your baised anecdotal evidence you claim as experience.

Ppl would always have their baised opinions, but the fact remains e38s have far more issues than an e39 overall, not just your fee isolated cases. Every damn 7 series has far more issues than the 3s or 5s of the same generation.

Guelphguy
12-09-2009, 09:34 AM
Must be one of the reasons why the 7 series also drops the most in terms of value. The 7 and 5 series end up around the same price used when the starting price is so much more for the 7.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 09:37 AM
It's better than your baised anecdotal evidence you claim as experience.

Ppl would always have their baised opinions, but the fact remains e38s have far more issues than an e39 overall, not just your fee isolated cases. Every damn 7 series has far more issues than the 3s or 5s of the same generation.

Any large body car is going to have the chance to have more potential issues since it has options/electronics that the smaller cars do not.

I really don't know by you saying far more issues is really fair. E39's aren't exactly that much better and share many of the same issues as the E38 that is FACT.

Obviously if you're talking about a late model 6 cyl E39 like Mystikal suggested you might loose some of the problems associated with the V8, but that's about it.

None of the E38's have any extraordinary problems that's what I'm trying to get at (compared to an E39). Parts aren't more expensive either for the 7er.

Besides who the heck wants a 530 anyway.

But since you're all so sure that the E38 is more of a lemon then an E39, why don't you list some of the issues the E38 will have that the E39 won't (V8's only for both please). Because that goes against pretty much everything I've seen and read about people who actually own one.

T.Dot_E30
12-09-2009, 10:25 AM
- Self Leveling Rear suspension
- Pretty much every suspension component is different and more expensive than an e39.
- Climate Control Issues
- ABS/DCS problems
- Various other electrical problems
- Parking Distance failures
- Rain sensing wipers
- Hydraulic soft close trunk

The 7s had way more options and therefore way more things to go wrong (They got the first versions of everything, which usually is the most problematic). By the time these features get to 5s and 3s, they already have some of the kinks worked out.

There is much more to the car than the engine and transmission.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 10:43 AM
- Self Leveling Rear suspension
- Pretty much every suspension component is different and more expensive than an e39.
- Climate Control Issues
- ABS/DCS problems
- Various other electrical problems
- Parking Distance failures
- Rain sensing wipers
- Hydraulic soft close trunk

The 7s had way more options and therefore way more things to go wrong (They got the first versions of everything, which usually is the most problematic). By the time these features get to 5s and 3s, they already have some of the kinks worked out.

There is much more to the car than the engine and transmission.

The average 7er doesn't have most of these options... unless you step up to the 750... the majority of 740's have regular coil spring suspension, and parts aren't expensive for it. I'm willing to bet they're on par with E39 suspension components actually. Since it's nothing special.

E39's will have the same climate control issues (since it's the same unit) that you're mentioning...

ABD/DSC is the same as the E39 again...

Various other electrical issues? like? That's a pretty broad statement. The E39 is known for a lot of electrical issues as well so let's just strike that one out.

Parking distance failures? Really now? That's hardly anything to worry about, but I'm willing to bet it's the same system in the E39 along with the rain sensing wipers.

The soft close trunk isn't a hydraulic mechanism... but ok that's the one thing that the E39 doesn't have. And although none of the people I know have had issues with it, I guess it's something that can break. And you'll need to buy a new lock mechanism.

See what I'm getting at here? Most things you've pointed out are all shared with the E39. So why is the E39 a better choice? You can get a standard 740i/iL that will be every bit as reliable and cost efficient to repair as a same year 540i.

Mystikal
12-09-2009, 11:58 AM
Any large body car is going to have the chance to have more potential issues since it has options/electronics that the smaller cars do not.

I really don't know by you saying far more issues is really fair. E39's aren't exactly that much better and share many of the same issues as the E38 that is FACT.

Obviously if you're talking about a late model 6 cyl E39 like Mystikal suggested you might loose some of the problems associated with the V8, but that's about it.

None of the E38's have any extraordinary problems that's what I'm trying to get at (compared to an E39). Parts aren't more expensive either for the 7er.

Besides who the heck wants a 530 anyway.

But since you're all so sure that the E38 is more of a lemon then an E39, why don't you list some of the issues the E38 will have that the E39 won't (V8's only for both please). Because that goes against pretty much everything I've seen and read about people who actually own one.

Just like in the X5 4.6is thread, you're changing the argument in order to save face.

E39 540s are extremely troublesome. But, none of us here were even discussing that car. You basically invented a comparison that had nothing to do with the topic. I go on for hours about how reliable an E38 is compared to a 60's Triumph but what good is that.

E30 Girl
12-09-2009, 12:26 PM
Price out an alternator. Or transmission rebuild. Or entire cooling system refresh. Or one of the 2 billion ECUs that will die.

I can't imagine anyone realistically thinking E38s are a smart choice.

I resent this statement considering I own one...LOL :P

Oh and just to add an alternator for this car is $1200 since they were brilliant and made it liquid cooled! Oh and lets not forget the ABS control mondule that is $2000. Great car but the parts are expensive unless you get cheap aftermarket crap which you will have to replace a year down the road anyway cause it fails.

P.S - Prices for parts only no labour.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 12:59 PM
Just like in the X5 4.6is thread, you're changing the argument in order to save face.

What the hell are you talking about? I wasn't even talking to YOU. I was talking to T.Dot.

You're one ignorant tard you know that? Just because some people suggested a 530i doesn't mean this is tread is a 530 vs. 740 only thread...

No where have I changed my argument at all. The E38 isn't any less reliable then an E39. Save for a few things different for the I6 variant of the E39 but I was never talking about them.

E39 540s are extremely troublesome.

I asked him (T.Dot) to list off the major problems that a V8 E39 would have against a V8 E38, and I pointed out that the major systems in both ares are shared between both. Drivetrain and basic electronics.

But, none of us here were even discussing that car. You basically invented a comparison that had nothing to do with the topic. I go on for hours about how reliable an E38 is compared to a 60's Triumph but what good is that.

You're an idiot. I didn't invent anything. You made a blanket statement that it's expensive to repair an E38 and that things will start to break fast. That's called talking out of your ass.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 01:03 PM
I resent this statement considering I own one...LOL :P

Oh and just to add an alternator for this car is $1200 since they were brilliant and made it liquid cooled!

Oh and lets not forget the ABS control mondule that is $2000. Great car but the parts are expensive unless you get cheap aftermarket crap which you will have to replace a year down the road anyway cause it fails.

P.S - Prices for parts only no labour.

You're listing off dealer OEM part prices. No one in their right mind would go that route. There are always alternatives.

A remanufactured Bosch alt. is ~$300...

As for the ABS module, well that's a tricky one.. but B5 Audi's have a similar failure, there are people out there that will fix it for ~$150, but a new one from the dealer is also around $2k.

dbworld4k
12-09-2009, 01:04 PM
Awesome thread. Awesome.

damameke
12-09-2009, 01:20 PM
so who won the debate ??

I guessed no...bo.....dy...

good argument tho, hope the OP wil take in all these points and make an informed decision on whether to get a BMW 745..

My take is that all cars will eventually has its problems, parts wil fail too and the key is stick to a good maintenance schedule with a good mechanic.

I would consider a Acura TL then thats me.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 01:51 PM
There is no winner... it's just a bunch of people trying to get their point across and that will probably swing the OP in one direction or another...

That's exactly it, every car will have it's problems... Most people think a lot of cars are unreliable when they're not. Some just need more attention then others. If you want a car w/o issues (or with minimal issues I should say) get a Honda or Toyota.

Owning a premium German automobile will cost you more then the Japanese counterpart in most cases. It's always been this way.

T.Dot_E30
12-09-2009, 01:58 PM
What the hell are you talking about? I wasn't even talking to YOU. I was talking to T.Dot.

You quoted him several times, he cited consumer reports to back up his claims, you have yet to provide anything that would back up any of your claims.

You need to stop providing anecdotal evidence, and learn how to argue/support your claims.

an⋅ec⋅do⋅tal:
based on personal observation, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.


I am done responding to you, i think a ban is in order for your name calling.

Mystikal
12-09-2009, 02:00 PM
What the hell are you talking about? I wasn't even talking to YOU. I was talking to T.Dot.

You're one ignorant tard you know that? Just because some people suggested a 530i doesn't mean this is tread is a 530 vs. 740 only thread...

No where have I changed my argument at all. The E38 isn't any less reliable then an E39. Save for a few things different for the I6 variant of the E39 but I was never talking about them.

I asked him (T.Dot) to list off the major problems that a V8 E39 would have against a V8 E38, and I pointed out that the major systems in both ares are shared between both. Drivetrain and basic electronics.

You're an idiot. I didn't invent anything. You made a blanket statement that it's expensive to repair an E38 and that things will start to break fast. That's called talking out of your ass.

The 528/530 E39 is significantly more reliable than the 540/740. This is a fact. The E38 is a very troublesome car, and the statistics I discussed showed that. There aren't a "few things different,", the 530i is substantially less expensive to own than the 540, as well as 740.

If you want to keep calling me an idiot, an ignorant tard, or say I'm talking out of my ass you're free to leave the forum. Whether by choice or by force.

T.Dot_E30
12-09-2009, 02:01 PM
You're one ignorant tard you know that?

You're an idiot.

*th-up* Great way to argue and support your points, you probably did really well in school.

E30 Girl
12-09-2009, 02:24 PM
You're listing off dealer OEM part prices. No one in their right mind would go that route. There are always alternatives.

A remanufactured Bosch alt. is ~$300...

As for the ABS module, well that's a tricky one.. but B5 Audi's have a similar failure, there are people out there that will fix it for ~$150, but a new one from the dealer is also around $2k.

The module you have to get from the dealer if you want it to last and not spend more in the long run, I know because I reserched it to death before replace in mine. Oh and the alternator is actuall about $500 reman bosch also had this replaced.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 02:37 PM
You quoted him several times, he cited consumer reports to back up his claims, you have yet to provide anything that would back up any of your claims.

You need to stop providing anecdotal evidence, and learn how to argue/support your claims.

an⋅ec⋅do⋅tal:
based on personal observation, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.

You're right, nothing can complete with consumer report statistics :rolleyes:


I am done responding to you, i think a ban is in order for your name calling.

Don't cry, dry your eye.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 02:44 PM
The 528/530 E39 is significantly more reliable than the 540/740. This is a fact.

I never argued otherwise.

The E38 is a very troublesome car, and the statistics I discussed showed that.

Oh yes I forgot your very important statistics told you this, which means you're 100% right. :huh?:

There aren't a "few things different,", the 530i is substantially less expensive to own than the 540, as well as 740.

See above.

If you want to keep calling me an idiot, an ignorant tard, or say I'm talking out of my ass you're free to leave the forum. Whether by choice or by force.

Honestly, I really don't care. I've brought a lot of information and help to this forum, technical and otherwise. Wouldn't bother me one bit if it made you feel more like a man to ban me. You are talking out of your ass... or sorry, you have Consumer Reports it's the holy grail. *th-up*

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 02:45 PM
*th-up* Great way to argue and support your points, you probably did really well in school.

Don't like it, don't read it. *th-up*

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 02:47 PM
The module you have to get from the dealer if you want it to last and not spend more in the long run, I know because I reserched it to death before replace in mine. Oh and the alternator is actuall about $500 reman bosch also had this replaced.

Not sure exactly what the failure is, I'd have to look into it more but if it's anything like the Bosch units on my car the fix is pretty solid. Just not sure if anyone has looked into it on the BMW units. Also the fix once done is better then the original design that Bosch does.

Ok $500... Still a far cry from $1200... :P

Bullet Ride
12-09-2009, 02:57 PM
... or sorry, you have Consumer Reports it's the holy grail. *th-up*


How are people who don't know you personally supposed to substantiate your claims?

Jay is referencing consumer reports because to a stranger they are going to be a more credible source than what some stranger on a forum (who appears to be a czar of E38's) says. It's similar to every time bmwm5lover argues about the reliability of the range rovers. I'll agree that consumer reports shouldn't be taken as the infallible rating of a vehicles reliability but for the most part if they say one vehicle is more reliable than another there's some truth to their claims.

E30 Girl
12-09-2009, 03:02 PM
Not sure exactly what the failure is, I'd have to look into it more but if it's anything like the Bosch units on my car the fix is pretty solid. Just not sure if anyone has looked into it on the BMW units. Also the fix once done is better then the original design that Bosch does.

Ok $500... Still a far cry from $1200... :P

Agreed but still a **** load of money considering you then have to install it which since liquid cooled is a huge job. The failure in the ABS module is the wiring coroding but the aftermarket ones have a shelf life of about 1 - 3 years and aren't that cheap either they run about $600 - $800. The BMW will eventualy do the same thing but you get a good 8 -10 years out of it.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 03:04 PM
How are people who don't know you personally supposed to substantiate your claims?

Jay is referencing consumer reports because to a stranger they are going to be a more credible source than what some stranger on a forum (who appears to be a czar of E38's) says. It's similar to every time bmwm5lover argues about the reliability of the rovers. I'll agree that consumer reports shouldn't be taken as the infallible rating of a vehicles reliability but for the most part if they say one vehicle is more reliable than another there's typically some truth to their claims.

Consumer reports statistics are always the first thing people like to yammer on about when it comes to reliability.... but the fact is that CR and other statistics are flawed in more ways then one.

I'm not going to sit here and debate statistics here, but here's a good read about CR statistics in general:

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

And if everyone weighs so heavily on these "statistics" why do you all drive BMW's in the first place? They're no where near reliable compared to Toyota, Lexus and the like...

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 03:13 PM
Agreed but still a **** load of money considering you then have to install it which since liquid cooled is a huge job. The failure in the ABS module is the wiring coroding but the aftermarket ones have a shelf life of about 1 - 3 years and aren't that cheap either they run about $600 - $800. The BMW will eventualy do the same thing but you get a good 8 -10 years out of it.

Hmmm... sounds familiar, although I'm going out on a limb here and saying it's not the outside wiring that's corroding, it's the super duper fine wire inside the module that corrodes/breaks which causes intermittent contact. Just like the Audi's.

That said, I wasn't talking about aftermarket modules either. There are actually people that fix the OEM Bosch modules. For the most part they're better then the OEM ones from the dealer because the OEM ones will have the same problem again eventually.

Bullet Ride
12-09-2009, 03:14 PM
And if everyone weighs so heavily on these "statistics" why do you all drive BMW's in the first place? They're no where near reliable compared to Toyota, Lexus and the like...

If people bought cars purely based on their reliability Ferarri would never sell a single car because who would buy a car knowing that it might spontaneously burst into flames at any moment?

Reliabilty was only being quoted in this discussion for the sake of justifying one car over another, not to justify buying a BMW in the first place

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 03:23 PM
If people bought cars purely based on their reliability Ferarri would never sell a single car because who would buy a car knowing that it might spontaneously burst into flames at any moment?

Reliabilty was only being quoted in this discussion for the sake of justifying one car over another, not to justify buying a BMW in the first place

There are people that take reliability as their primary factor when buying a car, which is why people swear up and down by Japanese cars.

Reliability is usually the first thing brought up in the "which car should I get" discussions as you can see here in this thread.

What I don't agree with is statistics being shoved down peoples throats. If you cannot dismiss statistics like CR and the like and go by anecdotal evidence or word of mouth then my point is why even bother buying a BMW (or any German car) at all. There are many more reliable cars/brands out there to choose from right?

Mystical mentioned that the B5 Audi's were less reliable according to statistics then the 740. Well knowing these cars very well and knowing mechanics that work on Audi's day in and day out, at dealers and indie shops I would challenge that any day of the week.

Do they have their weak points? Yup. Are they unreliable? Nope.

Get what I'm trying to say? :D

E30 Girl
12-09-2009, 03:29 PM
Hmmm... sounds familiar, although I'm going out on a limb here and saying it's not the outside wiring that's corroding, it's the super duper fine wire inside the module that corrodes/breaks which causes intermittent contact. Just like the Audi's.

That said, I wasn't talking about aftermarket modules either. There are actually people that fix the OEM Bosch modules. For the most part they're better then the OEM ones from the dealer because the OEM ones will have the same problem again eventually.

Ya by wiring that was what I ment and that was the problem I was having for two years before I finally repaired it. I was looking into someone repairing it but I had heard good and bad things about that as well. Atleast with the BMW part there is a two year warranty on it.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 03:47 PM
Ya by wiring that was what I ment and that was the problem I was having for two years before I finally repaired it. I was looking into someone repairing it but I had heard good and bad things about that as well. Atleast with the BMW part there is a two year warranty on it.

figured as much... and for sure a brand new OEM part with warranty is always a plus.

I'm gonna have to take a look @ the module in my buddy's 740 and see if it's remotely the same as the one in my car. Wouldn't be at all surprised lol

bmwm5lover
12-09-2009, 03:51 PM
How are people who don't know you personally supposed to substantiate your claims?

Jay is referencing consumer reports because to a stranger they are going to be a more credible source than what some stranger on a forum (who appears to be a czar of E38's) says. It's similar to every time bmwm5lover argues about the reliability of the range rovers. I'll agree that consumer reports shouldn't be taken as the infallible rating of a vehicles reliability but for the most part if they say one vehicle is more reliable than another there's some truth to their claims.

I've done my best to stay out of this back and forth argument that has been taking place, please don't drag me into it unnecessarily.

I am one of those that don't really care much about what Consumer Reports has to say and if I do happen to look at their stats, I use it as a rough guide/idea and take it upon myself to do my own research and either validate or dismiss their ratings.
It has also come to my attention that "reliable" is a relative and extremely subjective term. What is "reliable" and what is actually a big problem with my car will vary GREATLY from someone else's opinion.
I just despise it when people blindly quote stats and claim something is reliable, because the number of visits to the dealer(that are poorly recorded in the first place) was high.

dbworld4k
12-09-2009, 04:01 PM
Brb, refilling popcorn.

E30 Girl
12-09-2009, 04:01 PM
I've done my best to stay out of this back and forth argument that has been taking place, please don't drag me into it unnecessarily.

I am one of those that don't really care much about what Consumer Reports has to say and if I do happen to look at their stats, I use it as a rough guide/idea and take it upon myself to do my own research and either validate or dismiss their ratings.
It has also come to my attention that "reliable" is a relative and extremely subjective term. What is "reliable" and what is actually a big problem with my car will vary GREATLY from someone else's opinion.
I just despise it when people blindly quote stats and claim something is reliable, because the number of visits to the dealer(that are poorly recorded in the first place) was high.

I agree with this Terry our 740i has cost a lot of money but nothing has really been a problem. What I mean by this is there has been a steady stream of things but once fixed they don't return. The way I look at that car is it was $100,000+ brand new so even though it is 10 years old you need to bank on spending money when repairing it. It's all relative you buy a 20g car brand new and a 100,000g car the repairs are going to cost more on the more expensive vehicle thats life.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 04:05 PM
Brb, refilling popcorn.

http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/popcorn.jpg

Bullet Ride
12-09-2009, 04:06 PM
There are people that take reliability as their primary factor when buying a car, which is why people swear up and down by Japanese cars.

Reliability is usually the first thing brought up in the "which car should I get" discussions as you can see here in this thread.

What I don't agree with is statistics being shoved down peoples throats. If you cannot dismiss statistics like CR and the like and go by anecdotal evidence or word of mouth then my point is why even bother buying a BMW (or any German car) at all. There are many more reliable cars/brands out there to choose from right?

For sure reliability is a big consideration to most people. I agree that you have to take consumer reports with a grain of salt because there are a lot of variables that are either overlooked or simply grouped together. For example one manufacturer might have a much more rigorous maintenance schedule than another where a lot of parts are replaced as preventative maintenance. Since all of that falls under routine maintenance does that make the car more reliable than the other car that just drives on the original equipment until it wears out or breaks? Yes and no. In terms of this discussion however the cars being debated are both BMW and although the demographic of drivers varies a bit between the E38 and E39 (not much) the consumer reports should be a fair comparison tool because they will be equally biased for the most part lol.

Do they have their weak points? Yup. Are they less reliable than the 740? Nope.

Get what I'm trying to say? :D

Fixed. :P


If you want to help convince someone though, in addition to your words of wisdom, give them names and numbers of reputable people that they can contact for further advice/information.

NOTORIOUS VR
12-09-2009, 04:10 PM
I agree with this Terry our 740i has cost a lot of money but nothing has really been a problem. What I mean by this is there has been a steady stream of things but once fixed they don't return. The way I look at that car is it was $100,000+ brand new so even though it is 10 years old you need to bank on spending money when repairing it. It's all relative you buy a 20g car brand new and a 100,000g car the repairs are going to cost more on the more expensive vehicle thats life.

Exactly, not only that... Not all cars will fall into the money pit category.

My friends 740 has been near bulletproof. A new control arms, power steering lines, etc... nothing too major. Recently he needed to get his Tranny rebuilt.. He lost reverse gear. His car also has 215k on it now. So if the OE tranny lasted that long the $1800 used to fix it to last another 200k is peanuts.

But he bought the car already with a leaking tranny and low on oil, so who knows how the PO treated it (clearly not all that well). It doesn't automatically mean everyone will have issues with it. It's very easy to generalize.

And honestly for the luxury/comfort level of the E38, it's an amazing deal IMO. You're getting the best of the best BMW had to offer for a very reasonable price these days and you just need to realize that buying a luxury oriented car used mean you need to set aside some money for when things do eventually go wrong.

I would own one in a heart beat if it was offered with AWD :P

Bullet Ride
12-09-2009, 04:19 PM
I've done my best to stay out of this back and forth argument that has been taking place, please don't drag me into it unnecessarily.

Haha sorry maybe that was unnecessary but this thread reminded me a lot of your past attempts to defend range rover. I hope you didn't take it the wrong way. It was somewhat of a compliment actually. I was basically trying to say that because of your knowledge and experience with range rovers someone who knows you personally will be able to trust your advice. However when you are trying to convince a complete stranger and all they have is you and a consumer report to go off of, you alone will have a hard time convincing them. I agree that consumer reports alone are nowhere near sufficient to base a desicion off of. A lot of internet searching and reading on forums and talking to dealers and independent mechanics is necessary.

Nick_V
12-09-2009, 05:43 PM
Reliability means different things to different people. Some are happy as long as the car starts every time and the brakes work. Others freak out when something like the memory module breaks and they have to re-adjust their seat and mirrors after each time their wife drives the car. The E38 is packed with gadgetry (not sure how much more so than an E39) that is not essential to normal vehicle operation, so that's probably where a big part of its low score comes from in the CR. I'd imagine an E38 740i sport (the one I'd take) wouldn't be too much more to run than an E39 540i in terms of drivetrain/suspension. And it should be pretty obvious that any V8 car is gonna cost more to run than its 6 cylinder counterpart - takes more oil, burns more fuel, more spark plugs/coils, is heavier/more powerful so beefier brakes/suspension, etc etc..

lvan
12-09-2009, 06:14 PM
If I needed a bigger car over the E39, I would just go and buy Lexus LS 2000ish. Even LS430. I drove a few and it felt like a tank. That is enough for me to buy it over E38.The E38 are dated and cost a lot to fix. That's why the LS has a better resale. Also to me BMW community is overrated. Too many posers and other bunch of clowns. Let alone that cocky ones on the road.


When I was a bellboy in a hotel, I drove everything from 1989 Corolla to all sorts of exotics. Money-pit = no resale value = LS killing the E38 in any way.

Guelphguy
12-09-2009, 07:28 PM
Hhhmm, maybe I'll just keep my 300C!! :D Since I have had two E34's I am familiar with the thrust arms, steering link, use nothing but lemforder..etc..etc..
So I guess my version of reliable is that I don't want to be replacing parts on a regular basis for failure of some electronic nature that I can't really diagnose myself. I like BMW, the feel, luxury and look, My 300C feels like Cheap flash to me, goes like Hell straight ahead but the car simply is not as refined or drives anything like a BMW. I always wanted a 2000-2001 740 sport but I just feel they are getting somewhat dated looking now and it just seems to me that I will be tied to a tech going into the next generation 7. So not sure what I'll look into...I do appreciate everyone's input. CSR pretty much slams all the BMW's in terms of reliability and that is why I asked here for input from a community with personal experience. I never expect any 10 year plus BMW to be as "reliable" as a toyota but I am a fussy person that appreciates, quality, ride and wants everything to work as it should. *th-up*

damameke
12-09-2009, 08:06 PM
Hhhmm, maybe I'll just keep my 300C!! :D Since I have had two E34's I am familiar with the thrust arms, steering link, use nothing but lemforder..etc..etc..
So I guess my version of reliable is that I don't want to be replacing parts on a regular basis for failure of some electronic nature that I can't really diagnose myself. I like BMW, the feel, luxury and look, My 300C feels like Cheap flash to me, goes like Hell straight ahead but the car simply is not as refined or drives anything like a BMW. I always wanted a 2000-2001 740 sport but I just feel they are getting somewhat dated looking now and it just seems to me that I will be tied to a tech going into the next generation 7. So not sure what I'll look into...I do appreciate everyone's input. CSR pretty much slams all the BMW's in terms of reliability and that is why I asked here for input from a community with personal experience. I never expect any 10 year plus BMW to be as "reliable" as a toyota but I am a fussy person that appreciates, quality, ride and wants everything to work as it should. *th-up*


WHAT !!! after all these pros and cons debate.. you are not buying a 745 !!!

EuroPRIDE
12-10-2009, 01:29 AM
Isnt there warranty of some kind if reliability is one of the main concerns?

lvan
12-10-2009, 01:51 AM
:idea:

Than get A 2003 530i M-package sport, and when new 7 series dropps in value a bit, get that. You can even go for a new 5er after few years.



Hhhmm, maybe I'll just keep my 300C!! :D Since I have had two E34's I am familiar with the thrust arms, steering link, use nothing but lemforder..etc..etc..
So I guess my version of reliable is that I don't want to be replacing parts on a regular basis for failure of some electronic nature that I can't really diagnose myself. I like BMW, the feel, luxury and look, My 300C feels like Cheap flash to me, goes like Hell straight ahead but the car simply is not as refined or drives anything like a BMW. I always wanted a 2000-2001 740 sport but I just feel they are getting somewhat dated looking now and it just seems to me that I will be tied to a tech going into the next generation 7. So not sure what I'll look into...I do appreciate everyone's input. CSR pretty much slams all the BMW's in terms of reliability and that is why I asked here for input from a community with personal experience. I never expect any 10 year plus BMW to be as "reliable" as a toyota but I am a fussy person that appreciates, quality, ride and wants everything to work as it should. *th-up*

MiroE36
12-10-2009, 02:04 AM
I think the OP has given up on this thread LOL