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View Full Version : Question: If someone comes to a full stop on highway and you rear-end them...


Miguel
07-02-2008, 04:51 PM
is it your fault?

I was thinking about this today as I was driving down the 400 and some idiot came to a full stop with signal flashing trying to merge onto the 401 Westbound ramp.... I was thinking.. if I rear ended this pencil dicked losers K car, would I be at fault even though I am just driving normally on the highway?

So picture this... 6 lane highway, 1 of the middle lanes has a car COMPLETELY stopped. You rear end said car. Who is at fault?

Fel
07-02-2008, 04:56 PM
Generally, you.

I worked in insurance replacement for a while... 99% of the time, if you rear end someone, or were turning left, you are at fault in the eyes of the insurance company (also note that fault is determined separately between the insurance and the police sometimes...)

There are special circumstances, but they are very rare.

propr'one
07-02-2008, 05:11 PM
if the guy is drunk/being stupid, him.

if his car broke down, no one.

5style
07-02-2008, 05:34 PM
is it your fault?

I was thinking about this today as I was driving down the 400 and some idiot came to a full stop with signal flashing trying to merge onto the 401 Westbound ramp.... I was thinking.. if I rear ended this pencil dicked losers K car, would I be at fault even though I am just driving normally on the highway?

So picture this... 6 lane highway, 1 of the middle lanes has a car COMPLETELY stopped. You rear end said car. Who is at fault?

Lol !!!! ask me Miguel! Thats how my Peugeot died a tragic death!! LOLOLOL. *par-t*

Anyways, it is your fault. IT was my fault, thankfully the ticket got tossed out. And some pencil dicked chevy 1500 driver got his rusted out shit fixed to cause more accidents.

Miguel
07-02-2008, 05:36 PM
So in this situation where the guy is not broke down but instead he was a doofus and thought it more convenient to come to a full stop in the middle of the highway and merge in instead of waiting in the lineup like everyone else.... if someone rear ends him, then the rear-ender is at fault?

Does that make sense? if you cruise at 100KM/hr and are cruising BEHIND say an 18-Wheeler, and that truck moves at the last second, you could be doing 100KM/Hr and be 20 feet away from a STOPPED car. In this case, if you stomp on your brakes to NOT hit the stopped car and YOU in turn get rear ended... who would be at fault?

Miguel
07-02-2008, 05:39 PM
Lol !!!! ask me Miguel! Thats how my Peugeot died a tragic death!! LOLOLOL. *par-t*

Anyways, it is your fault. IT was my fault, thankfully the ticket got tossed out. And some pencil dicked chevy 1500 driver got his rusted out shit fixed to cause more accidents.

Was the guy broken down on the highway or was he fully stopped to merge in?

Its kind of like the "being cut off on the highway" scenerio I posted about a while back... if I rear end someone who cut me off, am I at fault? In that situation, a guy went from full stop on the fast lane and cut into the 2nd lane where traffic was moving normally. So i was cruising at 100km/hr and basically had a car come into my lane from a dead stop. If I rear ended him, could I have actually been at fault??

Eurotakeover
07-02-2008, 05:44 PM
insurance = you rear end someone its always your fault. I rear ended someone and i got a ticked for careless driving and a $400 ticket. Im currently fighting in court. Pretty much we were all going 50kph - 60kph when I look left for 2 seconds and look back and she had slammed on her brakes and BUMP.

5style
07-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Was the guy broken down on the highway or was he fully stopped to merge in?

Its kind of like the "being cut off on the highway" scenerio I posted about a while back... if I rear end someone who cut me off, am I at fault? In that situation, a guy went from full stop on the fast lane and cut into the 2nd lane where traffic was moving normally. So i was cruising at 100km/hr and basically had a car come into my lane from a dead stop. If I rear ended him, could I have actually been at fault??

My situation , the guy did a full stop in the passing lane, because he got spooked that someone merged infront of him ( thats what me and witnesses saw) . He then proceeded to NOT MOVE and SLAM!!! end of Peugeot and bent in half pick up LOL

I was charged. I have a feeling you would be charged too, because they would say well if you saw traffic you should of slowed down or swerved, thats the shit they gave me, and then when i took the ticket to court, it was thrown out and it doesn t exist anymore. I don t know the reason and im not asking. I know i am safe and thats all i care about . *th-up*

maroli
07-02-2008, 06:01 PM
I think the idea is that you maintain enough gap between him and you AT ALL TIMES so you can slow down in time. That said, who maintains that gap anyway....

5style
07-02-2008, 06:05 PM
I think the idea is that you maintain enough gap between him and you AT ALL TIMES so you can slow down in time. That said, who maintains that gap anyway....

I had a 5 car gap but 120 to zero in a 5 car gap, plus reaction time, plus grip of tires=not going to happen in any car.

maroli
07-02-2008, 06:09 PM
sounds like you need a big brake kit!
jk

5style
07-02-2008, 06:10 PM
sounds like you need a big brake kit!
jk

LOL! I had porsche 911 calipers with audi pads and floating Peugeot racing rotors. *sad* I was able to lock all four wheels @ 100

AceOfSpades
07-02-2008, 06:17 PM
Insurance company will probably tell you to keep a safe distance between you and the other car and finally bend over!

jstalin
07-03-2008, 07:44 AM
In most cases, the person that hits the other car is charged. If it can be proved the person stopping was just being a dick and driving carelessly then the cop might charge the other peson but that would be rare

BMW_7
07-03-2008, 07:48 AM
LOL! I had porsche 911 calipers with audi pads and floating Peugeot racing rotors. *sad* I was able to lock all four wheels @ 100

No ABS? :P

chromius
07-03-2008, 08:54 AM
I personally would argue that the guy stopped would be completely at fault, for the simple fact that 400 series highways usually have a 60km/h Minimum speed. So if the guy stopped for no reason such as traffic/breakdown etc. then he is breaking the law, and as such should be held liable for any accidents that resulted from him stopping in the middle of a highway.

BigD
07-03-2008, 09:05 AM
I'm not a cop but just from common sense, someone cutting in front of you almost stopped and someone slamming on the brakes or even hitting a brick wall are not the same thing. In the first case, other than avoidance there is nothing you can do. In the latter scenarios, the car was always in front of you, you should have maintained a gap large enough to avoid a collision. I'm not saying stopping is a normal thing to expect - I'm sure he'd be charged with some sort of unsafe driving charge as well. But crashing into the back of someone who's been in front of you the whole time is not really excusable. That's why I've always thought all those super angry people in traffic maintaining a half car gap on the highway are saints of the road - they depend on all those around them to not **** up. If anything happens, they're along for the ride, so instead of a 2 car collision you end up with 3 or 4+.

jstalin
07-03-2008, 02:58 PM
I personally would argue that the guy stopped would be completely at fault,

You can argue all you want, the law clearly states one must always maintain a safe distance behind the next driver.

If the person swerved infront of you it's a different story, like bigD said

chromius
07-03-2008, 03:06 PM
You can argue all you want, the law clearly states one must always maintain a safe distance behind the next driver.

If the person swerved infront of you it's a different story, like bigD said

This isn't about keeping a safe distance. we're talking about someone stopped for no reason in the middle of a 400 series highway (not someone you've been following).

I agree if you're following someone and you hit them from behind you're at fault, but that's not what I'm talking about, and not what I gathered the question was from the OP.

Quack
07-03-2008, 03:10 PM
This isn't about keeping a safe distance. we're talking about someone stopped for no reason in the middle of a 400 series highway (not someone you've been following).

I agree if you're following someone and you hit them from behind you're at fault, but that's not what I'm talking about, and not what I gathered the question was from the OP.

you've mistaken than, the OP said the car was in front of him that came to a complete stop so it can switch lanes, so yeah the OP was following him.

BlitzSix
07-03-2008, 04:21 PM
I agree if you're following someone and you hit them from behind you're at fault, but that's not what I'm talking about, and not what I gathered the question was from the OP.

Why else would you hit him if you're not following him? Change lanes into a lane in which a car is stopped, and then hit it ?? That would be pretty stupid as well..

BlitzSix
07-03-2008, 04:26 PM
I had a 5 car gap but 120 to zero in a 5 car gap, plus reaction time, plus grip of tires=not going to happen in any car.

Well, he doesn't stop INSTANTLY either... you don't need to stop within your gap to not rear end him... you just need time to react. So if you had a decent gap, assuming both of your vehicle's braking capability is the same you should have been able to stop fine.

BTW, a safe driving distance is 2 seconds back, so you have 2 seconds to react and still not rear end the car if that scenario occurs. A 2 second gap at 100 km/h will be 54 meters gap between the car in front and the one travelling behind.

You say you had a 5 car gap, at 120. Let's say even if a car is 6 meters long (it's actually like 4.5 but yeah), that's only 30 meters when you're supposed to be following him 54 behind at 100, probably close to 60 at 120. So yeah, you were too close..

BigD
07-03-2008, 06:19 PM
Well, he doesn't stop INSTANTLY either... you don't need to stop within your gap to not rear end him... you just need time to react. So if you had a decent gap, assuming both of your vehicle's braking capability is the same you should have been able to stop fine.

BTW, a safe driving distance is 2 seconds back, so you have 2 seconds to react and still not rear end the car if that scenario occurs. A 2 second gap at 100 km/h will be 54 meters gap between the car in front and the one travelling behind.

You say you had a 5 car gap, at 120. Let's say even if a car is 6 meters long (it's actually like 4.5 but yeah), that's only 30 meters when you're supposed to be following him 54 behind at 100, probably close to 60 at 120. So yeah, you were too close..

Considering that most decent newer cars will stop from 100 in well under 40 meters, it should be plenty. Just not paying attention (or it's "5-ish" carlengths :P).

Arash
07-03-2008, 07:11 PM
All depends if you have witnesses and they're nice enough to stick around talk to the cop saying the guy was being a douche. always be careful though on these highways, no one cares whose fault it was when you're dead or disabled, so you gotta watch out for the douchebags, and there's a lot of them. stay safe

chromius
07-04-2008, 08:45 AM
Why else would you hit him if you're not following him? Change lanes into a lane in which a car is stopped, and then hit it ?? That would be pretty stupid as well..

If the car that you are safely following suddenly darts out of the way, and unexpectedly there is a stopped car right in your lane.

Miguel
07-04-2008, 02:22 PM
If the car that you are safely following suddenly darts out of the way, and unexpectedly there is a stopped car right in your lane.

Exactly. In the original scenario, a car is fully stopped trying to merge into a busy lane on the highway. The lane the car is fully stopped in contains free-flowing traffic (assume 100Km/hr). So if you are following 2 car lengths behind a large 18 wheeler, you may not see the car in front of it. If that 18 wheeler switches lanes 2 car lengths in front of the stopped car, that gives you 4 car lengths + 1 18 wheeler (assume 3 car lengths...) so thats 7 car lengths to go from 100KM/her to 0km/hr less reaction time + while the truck moves you are STILL approaching the stopped car. Not to mention if you have a car BESIDE you, changing lanes would NOT be an option, your only option is to go AHEAD towards the stopped car.

If you hit the fully stopped car who is stopped where he SHOULDN'T be stopped and merging in an unsafe location, does the ol' "he who rear-ends is at fault" rule apply?

AceOfSpades
07-04-2008, 03:35 PM
you were following the 18 wheeler too close, i dunno its gonna be easy to defend the other guy's case i'm guessing:confused:

Bimmerette
07-07-2008, 12:22 PM
Lol !!!! ask me Miguel! Thats how my Peugeot died a tragic death!! LOLOLOL.

omg....Konrad???

Ahctuning
07-07-2008, 09:30 PM
Exactly. In the original scenario, a car is fully stopped trying to merge into a busy lane on the highway. The lane the car is fully stopped in contains free-flowing traffic (assume 100Km/hr). So if you are following 2 car lengths behind a large 18 wheeler, you may not see the car in front of it. If that 18 wheeler switches lanes 2 car lengths in front of the stopped car, that gives you 4 car lengths + 1 18 wheeler (assume 3 car lengths...) so thats 7 car lengths to go from 100KM/her to 0km/hr less reaction time + while the truck moves you are STILL approaching the stopped car. Not to mention if you have a car BESIDE you, changing lanes would NOT be an option, your only option is to go AHEAD towards the stopped car.

If you hit the fully stopped car who is stopped where he SHOULDN'T be stopped and merging in an unsafe location, does the ol' "he who rear-ends is at fault" rule apply?

NO.
The aftermath would be major carnage and 400 would grind to a quick halt. Citypulse and Cam Wooley would have a field day interviewing witnesses whom would tell it like it was.

Having said that..ticket would be the least of your worries ie; if you survived the crash.

5style
07-07-2008, 10:39 PM
Well, he doesn't stop INSTANTLY either... you don't need to stop within your gap to not rear end him... you just need time to react. So if you had a decent gap, assuming both of your vehicle's braking capability is the same you should have been able to stop fine.

BTW, a safe driving distance is 2 seconds back, so you have 2 seconds to react and still not rear end the car if that scenario occurs. A 2 second gap at 100 km/h will be 54 meters gap between the car in front and the one travelling behind.

You say you had a 5 car gap, at 120. Let's say even if a car is 6 meters long (it's actually like 4.5 but yeah), that's only 30 meters when you're supposed to be following him 54 behind at 100, probably close to 60 at 120. So yeah, you were too close..

bah oh well lol. my bad?

5style
07-07-2008, 10:40 PM
omg....Konrad???

Durrr! :P bimmer is fine but thats what happened to my gold Pug.

5style
07-07-2008, 10:42 PM
NO.
The aftermath would be major carnage and 400 would grind to a quick halt. Citypulse and Cam Wooley would have a field day interviewing witnesses whom would tell it like it was.

Having said that..ticket would be the least of your worries ie; if you survived the crash.

SO there was this super rocket powered 18 wheel BMW that was flying over traffic and then this poor innocent driver got scared when the crazy flying 18 wheel bimmer decided to land ontop of him, so he pushed his wheeee brakes and the now giant flying 18 wheel bimmer fly trap car eating plant line bmw smashed into his lunch????

calegrant
07-08-2008, 01:07 AM
Short of an enzo throwing out some parachutes, you need to maintain safe braking distance at all times. That doesn't mean you need enough room to change lanes, it means you must have adaquet room between you and the lead car to come to a complete stop without hitting him if he needs to do so. This means if he decides to lock em up because of something on the road, or if he plows head on into the back of someone. It's every drivers responsibility to be looking further than the car just ahead of them to see whats coming up.

If the guy is being a douche and just decides to stop so he can make his turn off, oh well tuff luck. Douchery isn't a term found in law and you're still responsible for not hitting him. Yes he could get a fine and stuck with a percentage who's at fault, but you'll be to blame for the most part.

Mickey Knox
07-08-2008, 09:20 AM
I think the idea is that you maintain enough gap between him and you AT ALL TIMES so you can slow down in time. That said, who maintains that gap anyway....


actually, I do keep that gap at all times, want to be able to stop you know. if you are too close and you rearend the person in front of you, its your fault end of story no matter what, there is no need to be all badass and tail somebody closely

Mickey Knox
07-08-2008, 09:21 AM
If the guy is being a douche and just decides to stop so he can make his turn off, oh well tuff luck. Douchery isn't a term found in law and you're still responsible for not hitting him. Yes he could get a fine and stuck with a percentage who's at fault, but you'll be to blame for the most part.

in other words, if you hit somebody because they locked up and came to a stop, dont call them a douche as you are one yourself for not keeping your distance

woofster
07-09-2008, 12:48 PM
I just witnessed a situation like the thread states today while driving to work. 401 westbound near Yonge St, lanes going from Collectors to Express. I was in the leftmost lane, waiting my turn to get onto the Express. As we're branching into the Express, I look over and see a guy in the lane next to me come to a complete dead stop, hoping to merge into the Express on-ramp! The traffic behind him was actually moving (albeit not at full speed) and had to come to a complete stop as well. Mind you, the lane this guy was in becomes the fast lane in the Collectors, so you can imagine the potential danger behind this manoeuvre. Really. Really. Stupid.

BMW_7
07-09-2008, 01:03 PM
I just witnessed a situation like the thread states today while driving to work. 401 westbound near Yonge St, lanes going from Collectors to Express. I was in the leftmost lane, waiting my turn to get onto the Express. As we're branching into the Express, I look over and see a guy in the lane next to me come to a complete dead stop, hoping to merge into the Express on-ramp! The traffic behind him was actually moving (albeit not at full speed) and had to come to a complete stop as well. Mind you, the lane this guy was in becomes the fast lane in the Collectors, so you can imagine the potential danger behind this manoeuvre. Really. Really. Stupid.

I blame the civil engineers who designed this shit highway.

The left lane should NEVER have lanes branching off somewhere. Same with the middle and right lane. There should be a separate lane that branches off each time there is an exit.

If a highway splits in two, there should be concrete barriers placed where lane changes are not permitted. Also, signs advising of the split should be placed well in advance (which they already are).

There should also be cameras monitoring people at major highway splits, making sure people don't cut off or hold up traffic at the split.

Boots R
07-09-2008, 01:25 PM
Short answer: Yes, even though it shouldn't be.

Axxe
07-09-2008, 02:16 PM
If you're tailgating an 18 wheeler and not paying enough attention that he can quickly jump lanes and you are on top of a stopped car, then you weren't paying enough attention. What the hell are you doing driving behind an 18 wheeler anyway?

Miguel
07-10-2008, 12:17 PM
Just to clarify, this is 100% a WHAT IF scenerio... it didnt ACTUALLY happen to me.

BMW_7
07-10-2008, 02:02 PM
riighhhht. lol

Honestly, as Tomek said, there's ways of avoiding these situations. It's called common sense and staying way further back behind 18 wheelers is part of it..

Miguel
07-14-2008, 04:19 PM
I just witnessed a situation like the thread states today while driving to work. 401 westbound near Yonge St, lanes going from Collectors to Express. I was in the leftmost lane, waiting my turn to get onto the Express. As we're branching into the Express, I look over and see a guy in the lane next to me come to a complete dead stop, hoping to merge into the Express on-ramp! The traffic behind him was actually moving (albeit not at full speed) and had to come to a complete stop as well. Mind you, the lane this guy was in becomes the fast lane in the Collectors, so you can imagine the potential danger behind this manoeuvre. Really. Really. Stupid.

That's what Im talking about... you'd be charged for that guy being an idiot. I know what the law says on this one but really... i think there needs to be exceptions.

BlitzSix
07-14-2008, 05:05 PM
If you're tailgating an 18 wheeler and not paying enough attention that he can quickly jump lanes and you are on top of a stopped car, then you weren't paying enough attention. What the hell are you doing driving behind an 18 wheeler anyway?

Hypermilling? *shiner*