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View Full Version : Insuring a 23yr old car, with a less than perfect record


Wingking
04-02-2008, 12:30 PM
I'm 28 years old, and my current insurance provider will be cancelling me as of May 1st 2008.
I have 3 convictions in 3 years.
1 Speeding,
1 driving in Public Transport lane (between certain hours, not allowed 3:30pm-5:30pm)
and,
1 failure to update my license information after I moved.

all within the span of 3 years.

So, with that said my current provider is going to drop me as of May 1st,
I plan on cancelling with them PRIOR to that date, in order to *try* and not have a "cancelation" on my insurance record.

my quesiton is for those in Ontario...
What kind of rates are you paying FOR YOUR E30 bmw...I don't care about your moms toyota corolla, or your dads cousins X5...

I just want to get an idea of what you folks are paying for, for your E30...
mine is a 1985 and I seem to be actually having trouble finding insurance providers that will ACTUALLY insure it...

thoughts?

Thadose
04-02-2008, 12:34 PM
try RBC insurance 1 877 749 7224

T.Dot_E30
04-02-2008, 12:42 PM
i find that alot of insurance companies are not wanting to insure older cars when opening a new policy.

But if you already have insurance on another (probably newer vehicle) it's just a matter of a phone call to have it added.

Yet you pretend to be a new person asking for a quote, and they magically don't insure older vehicles.

jstalin
04-02-2008, 01:02 PM
I doubt you'll find anyone to insure you, so I wouldn't get too hung up on premiums.

Wingking
04-02-2008, 01:07 PM
I doubt you'll find anyone to insure you, so I wouldn't get too hung up on premiums.


Stallin, why would you insist that I won't find a reputable company that will insure me?

jstalin
04-02-2008, 01:16 PM
Stallin, why would you insist that I won't find a reputable company that will insure me?

Who cancelled you, the broker or the insurer? I'm assuming you were cancelled for a reason other than the 3 tickets in 3 years. Most people are cancelled for misrepresenting themselves or breaking the law, not for a few tickets.

Generally, when an insurance company cancels you, nobody else will touch you. They have special companies that deal in high-risk insurance but it's incredibly expensive.

Wingking
04-02-2008, 01:25 PM
Who cancelled you, the broker or the insurer? I'm assuming you were cancelled for a reason other than the 3 tickets in 3 years. Most people are cancelled for misrepresenting themselves or breaking the law, not for a few tickets.

Generally, when an insurance company cancels you, nobody else will touch you. They have special companies that deal in high-risk insurance but it's incredibly expensive.

The insurer is canceling, not the broker persay.

If I had any other reason, or anything else to declare I would of done so-
these were the reason dictated on the letter that was sent to me-
I called them up, and they indicated that they have strict ruled in terms of holinding onto a policy holder...
I find 3 strikes in 3 years quite acceptable imo...

jstalin
04-02-2008, 01:35 PM
All I can say is good luck, it's very difficult to underwrite cancelled clients.

Wingking
04-02-2008, 01:37 PM
All I can say is good luck, it's very difficult to underwrite cancelled clients.


If I cancel the insurance policy, PRIOR to the indicated cancelation date- will I still be listed as a 'canceled client' do you figure?

europrince
04-02-2008, 01:39 PM
when is your scheduled renewal date? do you perhaps mean that they are not renewing your policy that expires may 1st? that is NOT a cancellation and will not be on your record as such. insurance is essentially a one way contract. you have the option of terminating insurance coverage. they are obligated to fulfill their side of the contract, namely insuring you according to conditions agreed apon, until policy expiration, unless there are legitimate reasons to terminate coverage, ie insurance fraud, misrepresentation of material facts on insured person/vehicle, missing 2 monthly insurance payments. if you have indeed be cancelled mid-term, you've done something much worse than the three tickets.

Wingking
04-02-2008, 01:53 PM
when is your scheduled renewal date? do you perhaps mean that they are not renewing your policy that expires may 1st? that is NOT a cancellation and will not be on your record as such. insurance is essentially a one way contract. you have the option of terminating insurance coverage. they are obligated to fulfill their side of the contract, namely insuring you according to conditions agreed apon, until policy expiration, unless there are legitimate reasons to terminate coverage, ie insurance fraud, misrepresentation of material facts on insured person/vehicle, missing 2 monthly insurance payments. if you have indeed be cancelled mid-term, you've done something much worse than the three tickets.

Europrince, you're bang on.
They are not going to renew me- hence, I figure that a cancelation.
my renewal date is May 1st.

jstalin
04-02-2008, 01:53 PM
If I cancel the insurance policy, PRIOR to the indicated cancelation date- will I still be listed as a 'canceled client' do you figure?


Doesn't matter, it will go down as a cancellation. But as per europrince said, make sure this is indeed a cancellation and not simply a non-renewal (which won't affect you at all). It just seems drastic to cancel over 3 relatively minor tickets

europrince
04-02-2008, 02:02 PM
If its a non-renewal, you have nothing to worry about, other than paying more to another insurer, perhaps a high risk insurer.

Jstalin, this will not go down as a cancellation. They are not renewing the policy, not cancelling it. They are fulfilling their end of the contract until the expiry date.


Here is your proof:
http://www.insurance-canada.ca/consinfogeneral/uaskus/uaskusMore.php?uaskus=16


Case closed :cool:

mirek
04-02-2008, 02:06 PM
You only have 2 moving violations, only 1 of them being serious, the not updating info isn't a big deal they won't even count that as a ticket. The HOV ticket I'm not sure, but I think it's not important either, I think they'll see you as 1 violation, IIRC.

I had a great broker in Newmarket, for Allstate, i got a great deal, saved about 1500$ a year. I completely forgot his name though. If you search past posts of mine regarding insurance I gave out his number a few times.

europrince
04-02-2008, 02:12 PM
I don't like the last sentence in the link I provided, where they said that you'll pay higher premiums because you're "non-renewed". That's nonsense. My buddies who work in insurance told me the following. I only remember it in layman's terms. All insurers have to submit a document to the government with their insurance parameters. Most mainstream insurers have similar parameters. If you don't get renewed, its because your risk has exceeded their parameters, ie. too many tickets or accidents. Since most mainstream insurers have similar parameters, if you can't get insured by one, you can't get insured by most of them. You have to go to a high risk, or facility, insurer, such as Perth. They take on more risk in their book of business. You're paying them for the risk, not some 'non-renewed' status.

jstalin
04-02-2008, 02:35 PM
Jstalin, this will not go down as a cancellation. They are not renewing the policy, not cancelling it. They are fulfilling their end of the contract until the expiry date.


I never said it was a cancellation, the OP did.

If you don't get renewed, its because your risk has exceeded their parameters, ie. too many tickets or accidents.

This is true, the non-renewal won't be an issue when getting a new insurer.

I had a great broker in Newmarket, for Allstate, i got a great deal, saved about 1500$ a year.

It was nothing the broker did that got you that discount, I can promise you that. Go direct, save your money.

Aveman
04-02-2008, 03:44 PM
I think I should be a pretty decent comparison for you, I'm 27 and I pay 130 a month with RBC with a clean record. Its liability only, I got rear ended in November and the damages were about 3000 and they did not even mention writing off the car. It's an 85 E30.

Good luck.

Also wanted to add, they will just charge you more premium if you've had a cancelation I think if you've had more than one you're screwed. If I had to guess I'd imagine they would charge you between 250-300.

ScotcH
04-02-2008, 03:55 PM
You only have 2 moving violations, only 1 of them being serious, the not updating info isn't a big deal they won't even count that as a ticket. The HOV ticket I'm not sure, but I think it's not important either, I think they'll see you as 1 violation, IIRC.


Wtf? Why do people make shit up and post it. Insurace does NOT CARE how insignificant the violation might be ... it still count as 3 violations. Period. Most low rate companies will drop you at 4 minor convicions ... some as low as 3. Basically, at that point you're high risk until 1 of them falls off. Shop around, but you're likely going to get screwed for a year. Don't get any more violations!

Wannabe
04-02-2008, 04:00 PM
I'm 23 with no prior convictions
85 325e 2 door
100/month for liability and comp.

Statefarm

BigD
04-02-2008, 04:34 PM
You're pretty screwed man, I'm sorry to say. You'll end up on facility (the legal gov't provision to allow the uninsurable to drive) and it'll be some ridiculous amount. The insurance cancellation is not a big deal as long as it's not for non-payment - if it is then that's worse than any ticket, buy a bus pass. I'd say your best bet for now until this stuff clears up is to re-register the car on a family member's name that's clean and experienced, and make yourself the 2nd, uber occasional driver. That may save you some money.

Wingking
04-02-2008, 04:42 PM
yeah-
it seems it.

I just dont' comprehend as to how I'm an actual 'threat' to the open road...

my speeding ticket was a 66 in a 50.
The minor conviction was for driving in a "busses only lane" at 3:56pm when the "bus only" lane starts @ 3:30pm.
(basically a road that leads to my house, which is rural scattered with driveways and homes)
and, the fact I waited more than 10 days to change my driver lic. information through the MTO...
makes me qualify for facility insurance.

Wherease, I've got friends that have rolled their cars, been charged with careless driving etc etc...I can't wrap my head around the thought that i'm classified as one of "those"

what a piss off

Wingking
04-02-2008, 06:33 PM
Just FYI,

theres SOMETIMES a silver lining.

I dealt with "The Personal Insurance" through a refernce through work..

I work for the Federal Goverment, and didn't realize we had them as a discount for covergae.

Called them up, and told them my scenario..


NOT ONLY saved a whoping $110/year on car insurance, also saved $160/year on home insurance!


YEAH FOR ME.

good things happen to those tho bitch and complain.

mirek
04-02-2008, 08:32 PM
Wtf? Why do people make shit up and post it. Insurace does NOT CARE how insignificant the violation might be ... it still count as 3 violations. Period. Most low rate companies will drop you at 4 minor convicions ... some as low as 3. Basically, at that point you're high risk until 1 of them falls off. Shop around, but you're likely going to get screwed for a year. Don't get any more violations!

My broker asked for MOVING violations, he didn't care about my unable to provide license tickets. I'm just telling you what I was told.

BlitzSix
04-02-2008, 09:40 PM
If you're to get canceled/dropped though, how long does that shit stay on your record ?

Or is it on your record forever? Say for having too many tickets, non payment, etc...

Toxic0n
04-02-2008, 11:16 PM
Man, even though we get RAPED her by ICBC on fees and premiums, at least we don't have to deal with stuff like this. Here, if you have tickets, your points over one year rolling period get combined for a premium which you have to pay on your birthday. Your actual monthly premiums only go up if you are in an at-fault accident.
Don't know which is worse...

wraith318
04-03-2008, 02:04 AM
i had a B of a time getting my 318is insured. when i sold the A4 and then bought the 318is they were like "it's an older car" and were himming and hawwing about things ... it's only a year older than my dang A4 !!!. of course this was my broker talking ... maybe more paperwork and they didn't want to do it because they got their commission from me already (who knows) so i just called the insuring company directly and inquired about moving my policy over to the bmw. it was no problem, he put me on hold to pull up my policy and then moved it over.

but i do know that most bigger named insurance companies will not insure anyone that has had more than 3 tickets (each insurer is picky about what the tickets are) and some are actually good about dropping one if it's close to it coming off your history. i once had to go with facility because i had 4 ticks on my history. i paid out the azz for about a year and a half, then was able to get picked up by state farm ... now i'm with upper canada and they seem to be ok.

your best bet is to first find out exactly what they are putting down on your history. you should be able to contact the underwriter to ask about your file. even if you were to cancel before your contract ends they would still put whatever it was they told on your history and it will be seen by the next company/broker you shop to. so make sure you know what it says before you tell them what you "think" it says. some brokers will think you are trying to pull a fast one and then treat you bad.

i still have a speeding ticket, i thought it was for a seatbelt (it came off before this one) so i foolishly said it was the seatbelt .... the broker pulled my file and was like NOOO it's speeding, you think i wasn't going to look nice try pal. so i looked like an idiot.

and you are best to find a new policy before you call and cancel or let it lapse. because sometimes they won't see the comments from the current one till after you are well into your new policy and then can't really adjust anything until your next re-newal (6 months or 12 months)

again , i'm only going on my experience. everyone else has obviously had their own experience and can give you their insight.

wraith318
04-03-2008, 02:23 AM
i think if you are dropped or cancelled it's on your history for 3 years like tickets. but i'm sure there are stipulations depending on the severity of why it happened.

so far i googled things and found this little tid bit :

In Ontario, insurance companies must file, with the Financial Services Commission of Ontario, the conditions under which they will not renew a contract. If an insurance company decides not to renew your policy, it must notify you in writing at least 30 days before the expiration date of your policy. The notice must quote the reason it will not renew. The following are examples of reasons that companies use for non-renewal of a policy:

you have had two or more at-fault accidents within the past six years;
you have been convicted of a major or several minor driving violations in the last three years;
you added a vehicle which the company does not insure, such as a commercial truck or an expensive sports car.

it looks like if they put that you have been cancelled or not re-newed and have a good reason it can stay on your history between 3 and 6 years. not good ..... as most companies won't touch you with a 10ft pole.

BigD
04-03-2008, 10:20 AM
If you're a younger single guy you walk on thin ice here. I'll give you an even better example. When I had my silver 535, I also had a beater 86 535 for the winters. What I did was take the beater car completely off insurance - what the **** did I care if it burnt down? The time I'd spend filing claims was more than the car was worth. So one fine autumn day I went to change cars, and they said we won't insure this. I was just FLOORED. How the **** does that work? You just insured this car 6 months ago, there were no problems then!?!?! They said the car is now X years old, we don't insure cars that old. So after 3 weeks of fighting, they conceded to insure it if I got a safety certificate... My broker said from now on, do not take it off the policy, no matter how long. Just leave it on fire and theft so they cannot disavow it later.

And if you're a young guy and you get even one ticket, that will cause many companies to drop you anyway. There is so much business out there that they can pick and choose whom to insure and you're at the bottom of the barrel of safe drivers. I know a lot of us think us enthusiasts are superior drivers but let's face it, a 40 year old soccer mom is not going to fanboy her M3 into the forrest Tokyo Drift style. So yeah... don't **** up, it'll cost you more than you think.

Man, even though we get RAPED her by ICBC on fees and premiums, at least we don't have to deal with stuff like this. Here, if you have tickets, your points over one year rolling period get combined for a premium which you have to pay on your birthday. Your actual monthly premiums only go up if you are in an at-fault accident.
Don't know which is worse...

ICBC is generally better unless you're new to the province. Over there, if you've been insured in the province for 5 years and you have a thousand speeding fines, provided you still have your license and never had any claims, your insurance will be peanuts. On the other hand, if you are new to the province, can't provide a lot of experience proof, and have a squeaky clean record, the premiums will be pretty shitty.

From my personal experience, the company I was insured with in Ontario went belly up a few years before I moved to Van, so I could only provide a few years of insurance claims history. So I only got like a 10 or 15% discount. I bought a new 4Runner and full coverage was 250 a month. To me this was great because in Toronto only a year earlier I was paying 400 a month for liability only on my M5. But I moved back last year, and with full coverage and still having a minor ticket (non speeding) on my record from 3 years ago, I was paying 199. When I bought my house and added house insurance, I now pay 140 a month for it (full coverage, 2 year old 47k car... I was also 25 last year turning 26, and I heard 25 is a big number for Ontario insurance but that's anecdotal...).

Toxic0n
04-03-2008, 05:27 PM
ICBC is generally better unless you're new to the province. Over there, if you've been insured in the province for 5 years and you have a thousand speeding fines, provided you still have your license and never had any claims, your insurance will be peanuts. On the other hand, if you are new to the province, can't provide a lot of experience proof, and have a squeaky clean record, the premiums will be pretty shitty.

From my personal experience, the company I was insured with in Ontario went belly up a few years before I moved to Van, so I could only provide a few years of insurance claims history. So I only got like a 10 or 15% discount. I bought a new 4Runner and full coverage was 250 a month. To me this was great because in Toronto only a year earlier I was paying 400 a month for liability only on my M5. But I moved back last year, and with full coverage and still having a minor ticket (non speeding) on my record from 3 years ago, I was paying 199. When I bought my house and added house insurance, I now pay 140 a month for it (full coverage, 2 year old 47k car... I was also 25 last year turning 26, and I heard 25 is a big number for Ontario insurance but that's anecdotal...).

That's the thing - I'm 23 with 25% discount (5 years of driving with no accidents) and I am paying 270 a month for my 99 328i. I think that is a bit ridiculous

oldskool3
04-03-2008, 08:01 PM
I am also with the personal they said they drop customers after having 3 convictions no matter what they are. I geuss it pays to know people.

europrince
04-03-2008, 08:57 PM
I am also with the personal they said they drop customers after having 3 convictions no matter what they are. I geuss it pays to know people.

That sounds like the norm....3-4 convictions. Meloche keeps you with 3 but drops you with more.