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INFAMOU$
02-21-2008, 10:02 AM
http://communities.canada.com/windsorstar/blogs/vanderblogger/archive/2007/07/04/street-racing-nonexistant-problem-stats-show.aspx

Street Racing Nonexistent Problem, Stats Show

I received the letter below recently from driving enthusiast Ron Durocher of Harrow. His comments and research are even more timely this morning, given what Progressive Conservative leader John Tory is proposing to do about speeding.


Last week, Ron was pretty annoyed by the political grandstanding of the provincial Liberal government over the alleged crisis in "street racing."


"It juist seems like our rights and freedoms as drivers are being whittled away because of political agendas and misinformation," Durocher wrote in an e-mail.


In response to a couple of deadly Toronto incidents that seemed more linked to that city's growing ethnic gang culture than to racing, the Liberals have been threatening to impose a Draconian crackdown on street racing across the province.


Durocher says the statistics don't back up the government's claim there is a "crisis" on our roads. According to his research, police chases actually cause more deaths in North America than outlaw racers do.


I'm sure Ron is even more disappointed today to learn that the provincial Conservatives have not only jumped on Premier McGuinty's streetracing "crisis" bandwagon but are advocating even more severe action.


Under the Conservatives' proposed law -- which you can be sure will part of their election campaign this fall -- any vehicle caught travelling more than 50 km over the speed limit would be confiscated on the spot for a week.


You have to wonder if that law would apply to certain well-known local speed demons in the legal profession, local industry, and some close family members of police officers who brag about their immunity from tickets. There certainly could be a lot of cars in our local impound lot. And that's not even counting the flood of American speeders on Highway 401 who know they are immune to our current laws . . .


Anyway, here's Ron's letter, which he titled The Myths About Street Racing:


"Recently, there has been much in print and much grandstanding by politicians, Attorney Generals and Police Commisioners about how street racing is an "epidemic."


"Sadly, Joe Public eats it all up since he/she really has no clue and no way or verifying if what the talking heads are saying is true. How do I know this? Well that's because Canada doesn't compile and keep statistics on the causes of accidents, which would include those by street racing.


"As an auto enthusiast and an engineer for an automotive manufacturing company, I take a keen interest in all things automotive. So I decided to do much research on the topic so that I could make my own decisions. With little info available here, I had to turn to the US. By all accounts, street racing is a much more serious problem in the US than it is here. Well after coming up emtpy for statistics from Transport Canada, I found a wealth of information from the National Highway Safety Administration FARS (Fatality Analysis Accident Reporting System) statistics. Street racing has been included in the FARS database since 1998.


"The statistics, to say the least, were eye opening. Far from being a scourge of the highways, street racing accounts for very few traffic deaths. From 1998-2005, there were 304,236 fatalities on U.S. roads. Of these, a mere 353 (0.12 per cent) were from street racing. For comparitive purposes, I also looked at other common causes. Talking on a cellphone, another dangerous driving habit much hyped by police and the media was only slightly less dangerous at 327 deaths (0.11 per cent).


"Bear in mind, millions of Canadians talk on cell phones daily; an act statistically as dangerous as street racing.


"Driving slower than the posted speed limit (429 deaths, 0.14 per cent) accounted for more deaths. Surprisingly, being distracted by something inside the vehicle, such as talking to a passenger, adjusting a mirror, fiddling with a radio or eating caused an eye-opening 38,914 deaths (12.79 per cent).


"Again, this is something plenty of people do every day while driving. Some of the highest trained street drivers in the world, police officers, caused nearly four times the fatalities (1,357, 0.44 per cent) of street racers!


"But these all pale in comparison to drunk driving. Nearly 144,000 people were killed by drunk drivers in the U.S., a staggering 44 per cent of all fatalities. Canada isn't much better. Drunk driving here is responsible for at least 30 per cent of all fatalities, claiming sometimes over 1,000 victims per year.


"By contrast I've been only able to find less than a dozen deaths caused by street racing in Canada for the last two years combined.


"And now there's been talk from the Attorney General about impounding and crushing cars of street racers. Why such a harsh punishment for something that is more or less insignificant statistically? Easy. These street racers are generally young people. And young people have no money to defend themselves in a court of law. So it's easy for the agenda-driven police and politicians to "show" that they are cracking down and being tough on this "epidemic" of street racing.


"Now, let's imagine for a second that the police and politicians changed the laws so that the cars of drunk drivers, the most dangerous group of killers on Canadian roads, were crushed. The outcry would be IMMENSE to say the least. Drunk drivers include people from every walk of life. Judges, teachers, politicians, police, journalists, engineers you name it. And more alarming, these people drive drunk multiple times! Even with suspended licenses.


"The fact is "street racers" are being centered out for political reasons but mainly because they are easy pickings. What a better group to target than a group of people perceived as dangerous drivers that can't defend themselves.


"Don't get me wrong here. Street racing is stupid, irresponsible and downright dangerous. But is it the threat to humanity we have been reading about? Certainly not.


"The average person doesn't know the facts and has no idea where to look for them. They are being lied to and are being fed a plate full of bullshit. (Last month) the Commisioner of the OPP said that we need a fleet of airplanes to combat street racing! Are you kidding me? A fleet of airplanes? And he had the audacity to say that the cost would be "minimal" and that they would pay for themselves by saving tens of thousands of lives!!


"A fleet or airplanes that require engine overhauls every 1,500 hours at a cost of $15,000 each!! And we need these to get a very small number of nut jobs off the road?And guess who will buy into this and be the ones paying for this? Yes . . . the same poeple who have no idea that this isn't really a problem . . .


Ron Durocher

Harrow

Axxe
02-21-2008, 10:07 AM
Talk to any cop, and they support this law.

INFAMOU$
02-21-2008, 10:16 AM
lol so you think Cops are smart and educated now? Cops do what they are told or feel like doing (enforcing their power).. Useless law and I think it's great how stupid the general public are for believing media hype such as this..

STALKER
02-21-2008, 10:17 AM
Talk to any cop, and they support this law.

They support it because if gives them more power.
Cops are always power hungry IMO. Any legislation that gives them more power over the average citizen, they will support it.

StikiGreenZ
02-21-2008, 10:33 AM
They support it because if gives them more power.
Cops are always power hungry IMO. Any legislation that gives them more power over the average citizen, they will support it.


Well said.

5style
02-21-2008, 10:43 AM
i wonder is it over to lake race? because if this is the case, take it to our waters j/k. Simply a sign of the sad society we live in, were being uneducated is the right thing to do.

Bartacus
02-21-2008, 01:07 PM
Just goes to show you most humans are a lot like lemmings. One lemming runs towards a cliff, 10 million follow behind without ever asking why. Humanity in a nutshell.

Bart

DANIMAL
02-21-2008, 02:51 PM
Is there anyway to sue the gov or appeal the law? Technically it is a violation of a citizens right to innocence until proven guilty, the cops cant take your car for a week, because you have not plead guilty nor been convicted.

When I was at the court house for my seatbelt ticket there were some older cops there taking to a crown lawyer about the then new street racing laws. The lawyer said that he is supprised no one had appealed the law yet, then there was a comment about it being aimed at younger people. The cop then mentioned how he caught an 70 yr old woman doing 130 in a 60 and he let her go.

This is garbage, if we are to stand this punishment for 50 over then drunk drivers should be jailed for a year before their trial. and people on cell phones should have their phones taken away, and people playing on the radio should have that taken away.

Yesturday in traffic I took my steering wheel off, maybe that should get taken away also.

Booo and Pooo on the provincial government for taking away peoples right to non-guiltiness until proven.*thmbsdwn*

slimjim
02-21-2008, 03:58 PM
great read, thanks alot for this. lol but now im just angry!

punnzzells
02-21-2008, 04:41 PM
yes, great read indeed... the problem with the law being unconstitutional, is that they will simply argue that it's for the benefit for a better democratic society....blah, blah....

the problem is they - various government agencies - have found the cash cow of all cash cows... how else can you get these fines... you know how many people the cops would have to stop to get the equivalent of 1 guy 50km/h + over?

yes, I’ve been saying it for years... Canadians are sheep.. they just.. baaaaaaaah.. in the queue... how come, if this guys article and research is accurate, in the USA, where they have 10 times the population of Canada have not implemented a similar law or more strict law? they actually have stats to back it up... oh..ya.. right.. the stats prove that it's bullcrap....

I am moving to Europe.... I hate the current way Canadians ( most of them ) act and think... everyone is trying to be " tolerant " of others while the “ rights and wrongs” get overlooked and are not dealt with properly... but that’s another rant for another day..

e46it
02-21-2008, 05:00 PM
interesting article, thanks for sharing.

JMW
02-21-2008, 06:12 PM
Street racing is indeed dumb, however it angers me that street racing, which statistically is not as ill of a problem as drunk driving etc. causes so much hassle to those who choose to modify their cars as well. I always nervous when i drive now, not because i have done something wrong, but because i almost am certain that a cop which sees me, will look for any excuse to give me a ticket. It is unfair, unjust, and political. Remember, the only time politicians tell the truth, is when they are branding each-other as liars. Therefore, they will do anything they can, that will obviously for their campaign make them look correct in the public eye. It is a damn shame.
Another issue rubbing salt in tax payers wounds, is the police wanting to put all of this money into planes as stated. Instead of wasting money on street racing projects, why not put more money into R.I.D.E programs, or sport checks for drunk driving, unsafe cars that are rusting etc.
-2 cents.

tig
02-21-2008, 07:04 PM
Is there anyway to sue the gov or appeal the law? Technically it is a violation of a citizens right to innocence until proven guilty, the cops cant take your car for a week, because you have not plead guilty nor been convicted.

When I was at the court house for my seatbelt ticket there were some older cops there taking to a crown lawyer about the then new street racing laws. The lawyer said that he is supprised no one had appealed the law yet, then there was a comment about it being aimed at younger people. The cop then mentioned how he caught an 70 yr old woman doing 130 in a 60 and he let her go.

This is garbage, if we are to stand this punishment for 50 over then drunk drivers should be jailed for a year before their trial. and people on cell phones should have their phones taken away, and people playing on the radio should have that taken away.

Yesturday in traffic I took my steering wheel off, maybe that should get taken away also.

Booo and Pooo on the provincial government for taking away peoples right to non-guiltiness until proven.*thmbsdwn*

section 1 of the canadian charter reads..."1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."
Meaning that the government can do whatever the **** they want as long as it can be demonstrably justified in a free and decomcratic society.....and taking away the rights of an 18 year old street racing when statistics have shown that street racing has killed in the past can be justified.
All in all what i m saying here is that our rights are not absolute and the government can take them away if they want to.....democracy my balls!!

1BADBMR
02-21-2008, 10:00 PM
Great read. I think lots of ppl are forgetting that the only way they are combating this situation is giving tickets/crush cars/suspend license etc.
What ever to giving more information to our younger drivers (more education) and why not open up a local track so ppl can get a chance to practice the skills in a safe controlled enviroment?
It really pisses me off to drive 1 1/2 hrs to a "local" track when we can use dead space such as Downsview Park.

tig
02-21-2008, 10:03 PM
Great read. I think lots of ppl are forgetting that the only way they are combating this situation is giving tickets/crush cars/suspend license etc.
What ever to giving more information to our younger drivers (more education) and why not open up a local track so ppl can get a chance to practice the skills in a safe controlled enviroment?
It really pisses me off to drive 1 1/2 hrs to a "local" track when we can use dead space such as Downsview Park.

there is a reason that there a not tracks near major cities...pollution

Quack
02-21-2008, 10:10 PM
there is a reason that there a not tracks near major cities...pollution

it's a lot more than that, noise pollution as well, also brings down land value around the area, what kind of family would want to live right next to a race track.

carscoe
02-21-2008, 10:12 PM
there is a reason that there a not tracks near major cities...pollution

and noise regulations..hense the reason for tracks being in the middle of nowhere

i remember the town of sparta (where st.thomas dragway is ) tried to get the track shut down because ppl said there was too much noise comming from it...safe to say, track won..but now no racing can start b4 1 on sundays...mind u, the track is at least a 15-20 min drive from town..but they still complained

Furious
02-21-2008, 10:23 PM
and noise regulations..hense the reason for tracks being in the middle of nowhere

i remember the town of sparta (where st.thomas dragway is ) tried to get the track shut down because ppl said there was too much noise comming from it...safe to say, track won..but now no racing can start b4 1 on sundays...mind u, the track is at least a 15-20 min drive from town..but they still complained

i dont know if you have ever lived near a track but quite a few of my friends live near mosport, and i can assure you, early mornings you can hear the cars.

BimmerboyPH
02-22-2008, 03:22 PM
Wow, extremly well put! I agree with him 100%, too bad the damage has already been done, even if the laws are removed cops will still be assholes to people who they deem as a streetracer!

propr'one
02-22-2008, 11:22 PM
A) **** this new law. this country is ****ing horseshit, we all know it, and i can't wait to leave.

B) just keep it 50 under. Its not hard. And if you're gonna speed, build your sorry ass bmw so its fast enough you'll get away. And dont give me any shit about "you can't outrun the radio". Yes, you can. The only people who THINK you can't are people who either haven't tried, or failed.

C) i wanna move near mosport. the sounds of a Porsche club lapping day as a wake up call? where do i sign.

Dr. Flyview
02-22-2008, 11:42 PM
A) **** this new law. this country is ****ing horseshit, we all know it, and i can't wait to leave.

B) just keep it 50 under. Its not hard. And if you're gonna speed, build your sorry ass bmw so its fast enough you'll get away. And dont give me any shit about "you can't outrun the radio". Yes, you can. The only people who THINK you can't are people who either haven't tried, or failed.

C) i wanna move near mosport. the sounds of a Porsche club lapping day as a wake up call? where do i sign.

Wow, well put.

carscoe
02-24-2008, 06:31 PM
i just realized. i know the guy who sent that letter, hes from around here..has a real nice 94 supra

BigD
02-24-2008, 07:10 PM
Talk to any cop, and they support this law.

And I personally agree with them. There is no excuse someone can make for going 50 over and no one will convince me that it's safe to do so on any of our public roads. This guy's approach with saying, hey look these other things are just as bad so we should leave this one alone, is lame. Instead, it should be, hey look at all these other bad things, we should take people's cars away for a week for drunk driving too. (the cell phone one is stupid, you can't convince me that the person wouldn't have ****ed up and crashed had he not been holding a phone)

I don't mind stricter traffic laws. There are a lot of things that you really have no excuse for doing. They include speeding 50 over, running red lights and driving with no insurance. I've done all of the above but I can tell you that if at the time, there was a danger of losing my car and/or license for it, I wouldn't have. None of them were accidental. I wasn't driving a Veyron, farted on the throttle and was doing 200+. They were all conscious choices.

The only thing that bothers me about all of this is that they call it "street racing". It's just extreme speeding. None of the people pulled over are involved in any kind of race. Ok I guess you could say a time trial is also a race.

propr'one
02-24-2008, 07:16 PM
dimitri, i think you're missing the point. I object to any law which gives a police officer, and not a judge or a jury of my peers the right to charge me with something that is completly up to interpretation.

why does it matter that they lose their cars for a week? howbout instead, you dont lose your car or licence for a week, but if you actually get found guilty, in a COURT OF LAW for street racing, you lose your licence for 5 years and your car gets crushed.

That law i'd support. A law that any asshole cop can "say" i was streetracing and take my car and licence away for a week? **** that shit.

INFAMOU$
02-24-2008, 09:13 PM
dimitri, i think you're missing the point. I object to any law which gives a police officer, and not a judge or a jury of my peers the right to charge me with something that is completly up to interpretation.

why does it matter that they lose their cars for a week? howbout instead, you dont lose your car or licence for a week, but if you actually get found guilty, in a COURT OF LAW for street racing, you lose your licence for 5 years and your car gets crushed.

That law i'd support. A law that any asshole cop can "say" i was streetracing and take my car and licence away for a week? **** that shit.

Exactly!!!

ScotcH
02-25-2008, 12:49 AM
Are there any incidences yet of poeple actually losing their car for 1 week because of something OTHER than 50kph over? I haven't heard of any. So far, it's been speeders that get the ass raping ... good for them. Until we start hearing horror stories about people losing their car for chirping their tires (which is technically one of the listed offenses), then this is all a bunch of cry-babying.

slimjim
02-25-2008, 12:56 AM
A) **** this new law. this country is ****ing horseshit, we all know it, and i can't wait to leave.

B) just keep it 50 under. Its not hard. And if you're gonna speed, build your sorry ass bmw so its fast enough you'll get away. And dont give me any shit about "you can't outrun the radio". Yes, you can. The only people who THINK you can't are people who either haven't tried, or failed.

C) i wanna move near mosport. the sounds of a Porsche club lapping day as a wake up call? where do i sign.

lol B is very tue...a friend of mine had his pedal to the floor (all the way, 220+ all the way:)) in his hemi magnum becuase his wife got into and accident and she called him for help. he past a cop doing radar and he said all he saw were the lights going further into the distance

Toxic0n
02-25-2008, 07:40 AM
Are there any incidences yet of poeple actually losing their car for 1 week because of something OTHER than 50kph over? I haven't heard of any. So far, it's been speeders that get the ass raping ... good for them. Until we start hearing horror stories about people losing their car for chirping their tires (which is technically one of the listed offenses), then this is all a bunch of cry-babying.

This law doesn't apply in BC, but I wanted to know this: if a cop SAYS you were going 50kph+ over (since they are trained to estimate the speed), will you vehicle be crushed as well? Seems like an easy way for them to punish someone who was only slightly speeding. Your word vs the cop's and your car is already gone.

BigD
02-25-2008, 08:20 AM
dimitri, i think you're missing the point. I object to any law which gives a police officer, and not a judge or a jury of my peers the right to charge me with something that is completly up to interpretation.

why does it matter that they lose their cars for a week? howbout instead, you dont lose your car or licence for a week, but if you actually get found guilty, in a COURT OF LAW for street racing, you lose your licence for 5 years and your car gets crushed.

That law i'd support. A law that any asshole cop can "say" i was streetracing and take my car and licence away for a week? **** that shit.

The only solution for you then is to move to an anarchistic society but I don't know if those exist. Even tribes have laws. Hey guess who enforces the laws? People and their interpretations. Just because you go to a COURT OF LAW, it doesn't change the fact that your guilt will be determined by the interpretation and opinion of your fellow human beings (eg OJ Simpson).

And if you feel you were wrongly charged, you can escalate it through the justice system. First traffic court, then you can go up the chain (also seeking damages for having your car impounded). This is exactly what that one dude did, who was ticketed for flashing his highbeams, warning people of speedtraps. If you feel you were discriminated against, and you weren't actually doing 50 over, the cop just had it in for you, then call up Jonnie Cochran. Otherwise, slow down and chill out. It's not a perfect system but it's closer to one than most others. If you want to live in a safe society, you have to hand it over the right to judge and punish you, so it can do the same to those who do you wrong.

StikiGreenZ
02-25-2008, 08:34 AM
And if you feel you were wrongly charged, you can escalate it through the justice system. First traffic court, then you can go up the chain (also seeking damages for having your car impounded). This is exactly what that one dude did, who was ticketed for flashing his highbeams, warning people of speedtraps. If you feel you were discriminated against, and you weren't actually doing 50 over, the cop just had it in for you, then call up Jonnie Cochran. Otherwise, slow down and chill out. It's not a perfect system but it's closer to one than most others. If you want to live in a safe society, you have to hand it over the right to judge and punish you, so it can do the same to those who do you wrong.

What's the point of escalating? You are not given the opportunity to present your defense in a court of law. You are sentenced and lose your vehicle right at the side of the road. You call that justice? By the way, I know 2 people who were doing 45 over and still got their vehicles impounded, both were women in their mid-late 40's. So the cop used his "interpretation" of rounding 45 up to 50? Give me a break.

INFAMOU$
02-25-2008, 08:44 AM
The only solution for you then is to move to an anarchistic society but I don't know if those exist. Even tribes have laws. Hey guess who enforces the laws? People and their interpretations. Just because you go to a COURT OF LAW, it doesn't change the fact that your guilt will be determined by the interpretation and opinion of your fellow human beings (eg OJ Simpson).

And if you feel you were wrongly charged, you can escalate it through the justice system. First traffic court, then you can go up the chain (also seeking damages for having your car impounded). This is exactly what that one dude did, who was ticketed for flashing his highbeams, warning people of speedtraps. If you feel you were discriminated against, and you weren't actually doing 50 over, the cop just had it in for you, then call up Jonnie Cochran. Otherwise, slow down and chill out. It's not a perfect system but it's closer to one than most others. If you want to live in a safe society, you have to hand it over the right to judge and punish you, so it can do the same to those who do you wrong.

LMAO.. you really don't get the point do you? Your whole paragraph on ESCALATING the situation if you were wrongly charged DOES NOT APPLY to this case! If you didn't already know.. even if you are found innocent (most likely 6 to 8 months later due to our great legal system) they have made is quite clear that you DO NOT get DAMAGES reimbursed.. You are out the tow, impound charges, fees to get your license back, etc... If you want to live in a Police State then I consider that YOU MOVE!

Also if the police would ENFORCE the LAWS we ALREADY HAVE! Then there wouldn't be a problem... If someone is going 50 over and gets a careless driving charge then maybe the legal system should make it STICK! We all know all those charges get dropped down in court to lesser charges.. Again it's your so called "justice system" that is failing not the laws... Canada is probably the only place where a bum on the street could kill somebody and go to jail to have a better life (better food) etc.. Our great tax dollars at work..

$2 million dollars in a PLANE to enforce this nonsense of a law? Other than being the biggest money grab of all time this law is just ridiculous.. I don't think they have yet to PROVE one of their 3000+ caught speeders (street racing)... How about the old man who was driving his wife to the hospital doing 52km/h and got his car impounded and left on the side of the road (any decent cop would have knocked it down to 49km/h)... How about the guy from NY left on the side of the road with his 2 dogs and presents in the middle of winter not in his own country for doing 52km/h over.. How about the off duty cop in Windsor who was egging on a kid in a 300C and made him race.. then pulled him over and charged him.. How about the off duty cop near Belleville that was driving along that saw a car whip by him so he FOLLOWS it saying the car was traveling at 160km/h (which means he would have had to be doing 180km/h himself to catch it) and charged him.. Not saying that 50km/h over the limit should be allowed but perhaps if 400 series highways actually had the 120km/h speed limit they are designed for you would hardly ever catch anyone doing 170km/h!! Maybe if the cops wouldn't sit at zone that go from 100km/h down to 60km/h etc...

Try to play the Devils Advocate all you like but there is no way this law will ever sit well in my stomach.. Especially since now DUI "warnings" have to be 3 before your car is impounded! Why can't you get 3 speeding warnings??.. Canadians need to wake up and stop being sheep to such laws and I can't wait to see the fights that all the soccer moms who lost their SUVs put up in their date in court that are now called "street racers".. Leaving the discretion up to some guy who couldn't graduate a real college program on a power trip to decide my fate is not cool. I think our legal system needs to be respected more before such laws can be put into place.. Anyways I could go on for days.. I hope I made my point.

carscoe
02-25-2008, 08:50 AM
i was pulled a few weeks ago for doing 50 over. funny thing is..i was doing 60 in a 50..cop comes up to my window, first thing he says is "so..goin 50 over eh?"..im like wtf..if i would have done 100 on the road i was on i would have hit about 40 cars. it was in midday traffic...i was pissed....takes my info..comes back to my car, says im gonna give u a warning..it really annoyed me..they have way to much power now..all he had to do was SAY i was doin 50 over, then im ****ed on getting to work..arg

BigD
02-25-2008, 10:13 AM
LMAO.. you really don't get the point do you? Your whole paragraph on ESCALATING the situation if you were wrongly charged DOES NOT APPLY to this case! If you didn't already know.. even if you are found innocent (most likely 6 to 8 months later due to our great legal system) they have made is quite clear that you DO NOT get DAMAGES reimbursed.. You are out the tow, impound charges, fees to get your license back, etc... If you want to live in a Police State then I consider that YOU MOVE!

ORLY, so where's the proof? Show me where "they make it quite clear" that if I sue the police for harassment, I will not get damages reimbursed.

Try to play the Devils Advocate all you like but there is no way this law will ever sit well in my stomach..

What the **** do I care where things sit in you, I'm just stating my view, not playing anyone's advocate.

propr'one
02-25-2008, 10:17 AM
dimitry, i can't escalate shit, because the cops already took my car for a week, and suspended my licence for a week.

what is the advantage of suspending thier licence for a week, and taking the car for a week right away? there is ZERO advantage to this violation of rights. Whether the licence gets suspended now, or later, the effect will be the same. If you're found guilty car -> impounded.

dimitry, why do we even have courts? Why dont we just have cops take people to jail for the amount of time they feel is appropriate?

I know a couple of people fighting this charge right now, i hope they go after the cops.

BigD
02-25-2008, 10:24 AM
What's the point of escalating? You are not given the opportunity to present your defense in a court of law. You are sentenced and lose your vehicle right at the side of the road. You call that justice? By the way, I know 2 people who were doing 45 over and still got their vehicles impounded, both were women in their mid-late 40's. So the cop used his "interpretation" of rounding 45 up to 50? Give me a break.

Where the hell are you people getting this shit from? Who says you do not have the right to fight this? I must have missed the part where the law states that the decision of the police is final and irreversible. It's the same for every police enforcement. When you get handcuffed and jailed for robbing a bank, you don't first get to go to "present your defense in a court of law" and only then the cuffs are thrown on. We give the police the education and power to use their judgement in deciding who is likely enough to be guilty of breaking the law that they should be restrained or even reprimanded on the spot (if the violation is minor enough, like speeding or littering).

And by the way, traffic court is not a court of civil or criminal law, it is a court of the traffic act. If you want more than the reversal of the fine, you go up the food chain where things like that are handled. If you want money for your suffering, you go to civil. If you think the officer committed a crime against you, you go to criminal. You want no chance of having to deal with this, you slow down or get the **** out.

propr'one
02-25-2008, 10:29 AM
DIMITRY, YOU DONT GET IT. YOU LOSE YOUR CAR FOR A WEEK AT THE SIDE OF THE ROAD. YOU ARE PRESUMED GUILTY, NOT INNOCENT. THAT IS THE ****ING PROBLEM.

seriously bro, i'm kindof surprised you dont see everyone's objection with this. robbing a bank? Robbing a bank = dangerous offender, danger to society. You're telling me mommy driving jimmy to soccer practise doing 130 in a construction zone is a "danger to society"? that's a joke.

BigD
02-25-2008, 10:38 AM
dimitry, i can't escalate shit, because the cops already took my car for a week, and suspended my licence for a week.

what is the advantage of suspending thier licence for a week, and taking the car for a week right away? there is ZERO advantage to this violation of rights. Whether the licence gets suspended now, or later, the effect will be the same. If you're found guilty car -> impounded.

The advantage is a threat. The point of laws like this is not to make money, it's to get people to slow down, because clearly the current fine system is not working. They're not interested in impounding your (the proverbial "your", not propane's :P) piece of shit, nor do they want your license. They want you to drive safely. If you are hit by lightning and you are pulled over for driving like a normal human being, and charged with street racing, there are many avenues you may pursue. Hell, you may even lose in higher courts. But like I said, these are the risks you have to take for the advantages the system provides. Until we have a way of ensuring that our police are nothing but cold hard logical robots, there will be no perfect system but this is as good as it gets right now.

dimitry, why do we even have courts? Why dont we just have cops take people to jail for the amount of time they feel is appropriate?

They can. They can jail you for 24 (or is it 48) hours without a charge. In fact, if he feels you were a true menace on the road, he can charge you with all sorts of shit, including assault with a weapon. In some states in the US, for a certain number over the limit, they're allowed to take you to jail on the spot.

I know a couple of people fighting this charge right now, i hope they go after the cops.

Right, and according to them, they were all doing the limit right? Am I the only one who gets pulled over for speeding when I'm speeding? I guess it's like in prison, everyone's innocent if you ask.

BigD
02-25-2008, 10:41 AM
DIMITRY, YOU DONT GET IT. YOU LOSE YOUR CAR FOR A WEEK AT THE SIDE OF THE ROAD. YOU ARE PRESUMED GUILTY, NOT INNOCENT. THAT IS THE ****ING PROBLEM.

Yup, it's the traffic act, not criminal law. Driving is not a right, it's a privilege. Even if you go to traffic court, you are presumed guilty until you prove you are innocent or the crown has no case. The only way around it is to not break the laws or the TTC.

You're telling me mommy driving jimmy to soccer practise doing 130 in a construction zone is a "danger to society"?

Abso****inglutely.

INFAMOU$
02-25-2008, 10:54 AM
The advantage is a threat. The point of laws like this is not to make money, it's to get people to slow down, because clearly the current fine system is not working.

You said it yourself.... :idea: Let's make a bunch of news laws because we are failing as a legal system.. so instead of enforcing the laws we already have.. we'll just make some new ones up as we go along.. Let's throw away the charter of rights and give discretion to those that for the most part don't deserve it..

Big D.... So i assume you're the kind of guys that puts Slick50 in your engine when it starts to tick.. or Bahrs stop leak in your cooling system when you have a coolant leak. Or use bondo over and over again on a rusted panel instead of fixing it properly the first time..

I hope that you lose your car and get f*cked with no vaseline on the side of the road because some cop thought you were street racing because the civic beside you got clocked... I am sure you wouldn't be praising this new law then.. Enjoy the tow fee, impound fee... Bus pass for the week.. legal fees etc.. All because you think cops are now qualified to be judge and jury.... Better yet.. why even make people have to put in hours for apprenticeships.. In fact any community college student or high school student with some classes in Plumbing, Mechanics, Construction should all just automatically be certified they have the knowledge right? *th-up*

BigD
02-25-2008, 11:00 AM
I give up. For your sake, I hope you guys mature some day.

Blades
02-25-2008, 11:02 AM
LMAO.. you really don't get the point do you? Your whole paragraph on ESCALATING the situation if you were wrongly charged DOES NOT APPLY to this case! If you didn't already know.. even if you are found innocent (most likely 6 to 8 months later due to our great legal system) they have made is quite clear that you DO NOT get DAMAGES reimbursed.. You are out the tow, impound charges, fees to get your license back, etc... If you want to live in a Police State then I consider that YOU MOVE!

Also if the police would ENFORCE the LAWS we ALREADY HAVE! Then there wouldn't be a problem... If someone is going 50 over and gets a careless driving charge then maybe the legal system should make it STICK! We all know all those charges get dropped down in court to lesser charges.. Again it's your so called "justice system" that is failing not the laws... Canada is probably the only place where a bum on the street could kill somebody and go to jail to have a better life (better food) etc.. Our great tax dollars at work..

$2 million dollars in a PLANE to enforce this nonsense of a law? Other than being the biggest money grab of all time this law is just ridiculous.. I don't think they have yet to PROVE one of their 3000+ caught speeders (street racing)... How about the old man who was driving his wife to the hospital doing 52km/h and got his car impounded and left on the side of the road (any decent cop would have knocked it down to 49km/h)... How about the guy from NY left on the side of the road with his 2 dogs and presents in the middle of winter not in his own country for doing 52km/h over.. How about the off duty cop in Windsor who was egging on a kid in a 300C and made him race.. then pulled him over and charged him.. How about the off duty cop near Belleville that was driving along that saw a car whip by him so he FOLLOWS it saying the car was traveling at 160km/h (which means he would have had to be doing 180km/h himself to catch it) and charged him.. Not saying that 50km/h over the limit should be allowed but perhaps if 400 series highways actually had the 120km/h speed limit they are designed for you would hardly ever catch anyone doing 170km/h!! Maybe if the cops wouldn't sit at zone that go from 100km/h down to 60km/h etc...

Try to play the Devils Advocate all you like but there is no way this law will ever sit well in my stomach.. Especially since now DUI "warnings" have to be 3 before your car is impounded! Why can't you get 3 speeding warnings??.. Canadians need to wake up and stop being sheep to such laws and I can't wait to see the fights that all the soccer moms who lost their SUVs put up in their date in court that are now called "street racers".. Leaving the discretion up to some guy who couldn't graduate a real college program on a power trip to decide my fate is not cool. I think our legal system needs to be respected more before such laws can be put into place.. Anyways I could go on for days.. I hope I made my point.


++1^^

propr'one
02-25-2008, 11:34 AM
dimitry, honestly, you're a good guy, you've always treated me with respect, and i hope you feel the same way about how i treat you.

but i dont think you've said a single thing i can agree with in this entire thread, and i am very dissapointed that our politicians seem to think the same way you do. The advantage is a threat? Howbout i put land mines on my property, and tell people not to tresspass? there's a threat there, of landmines and certain death. the problem here, is that the punishment doesn't suit the crime.

throwing comments around like "i hope you guys mature" when we're defending our civil liberties is pretty ****ing ignorant though. I dont speed, i have been driving for 5 years and have 1 moving violation (speeding ticket). This law is wrong, and if you ask people in law school, they'll agree with me. It doesn't matter if you speed or not. My parents think this law is wrong, and my mom got a ticket for going too slow on the highway. The amount of shit we put up with from our government these days is rediculous.

lastly, i'm a lot younger than you are, and you're a lot more intimidating than i am. I bet i deal with a lot more police harassment than you do. I've been threatened with being charged by a cop under this new legislation when i was SITTING in a PARKING lot in my CIVIC.

i'm not trying to change your mind, think whatever you want, but this law is wrong, i know at heart it is, and i'm not alone.

T.Dot_E30
02-25-2008, 11:44 AM
+1 to everything Ivan is saying.

Dimitry, I don't think you are understanding the otherside of the arguement, when we clearly understand yours.

Furious
02-25-2008, 11:47 AM
dimitry, honestly, you're a good guy, you've always treated me with respect, and i hope you feel the same way about how i treat you.

.

i think the way you touch eachother constitutes, treating eachother with respect.

now lets talk about the war in iraq.

ScotcH
02-25-2008, 11:55 AM
By the way, I know 2 people who were doing 45 over and still got their vehicles impounded, both were women in their mid-late 40's. So the cop used his "interpretation" of rounding 45 up to 50? Give me a break.

I don't buy that. I just can't see a cop making up over 50kph if it actually wasn't. I'd liek to see prrof that this is really happening, since if it IS happening, it needs to be addressed in a court other than traffic. This basically now comes into the realm of defimation of character and all sorts of other shit. If they are NOT fighting it, than that's their problem for taking it lying down.

INFAMOU$
02-25-2008, 12:21 PM
I don't buy that. I just can't see a cop making up over 50kph if it actually wasn't. I'd liek to see prrof that this is really happening, since if it IS happening, it needs to be addressed in a court other than traffic. This basically now comes into the realm of defimation of character and all sorts of other shit. If they are NOT fighting it, than that's their problem for taking it lying down.

Scotch... it could be true as BILL 203 gives the discretion to the officer to decide what is "racing" if the officer felt a car that was doing 5km/h over the limit was street racing.. then IMPOUNDED and license lost.. Anything that the officer finds to be as "stunting" results in the same thing.. I am sure since this law came into effect late last season that we will be hearing all kinds of stories this year and I am excited to see how they turn out.. There is no way a law like this can last..

Not sure if you guys heard but a kid was speeding on hwy 35 near Lindsay and tried to run from the cops and crashed in the end.. I think there will be a lot of this happening too unfortunately as young kids will think "hell, i am going to lose my license and my car either way.. i might as well run and try my luck in getting away". It will be an interesting summer...

Dr. Flyview
02-25-2008, 12:39 PM
I hate seeing that Sergeant Wooly or w/e on TV smiling about all the "street racers" they've cought (or more like about the money he's made).

punnzzells
02-25-2008, 12:46 PM
And I personally agree with them. There is no excuse someone can make for going 50 over and no one will convince me that it's safe to do so on any of our public roads. This guy's approach with saying, hey look these other things are just as bad so we should leave this one alone, is lame. Instead, it should be, hey look at all these other bad things, we should take people's cars away for a week for drunk driving too. (the cell phone one is stupid, you can't convince me that the person wouldn't have ****ed up and crashed had he not been holding a phone)

I don't mind stricter traffic laws. There are a lot of things that you really have no excuse for doing. They include speeding 50 over, running red lights and driving with no insurance. I've done all of the above but I can tell you that if at the time, there was a danger of losing my car and/or license for it, I wouldn't have. None of them were accidental. I wasn't driving a Veyron, farted on the throttle and was doing 200+. They were all conscious choices.

The only thing that bothers me about all of this is that they call it "street racing". It's just extreme speeding. None of the people pulled over are involved in any kind of race. Ok I guess you could say a time trial is also a race.


Sorry, I beg to differ... speed does not kill..incompetence does!

Cars are built better , safer, and for higher speeds, especially the ones that most members here drive... why can people in Europe do 160 km/h + on a highway everyday? Have you been on the 400 series highways.. most cars are doing 120km/h plus all day..

last night, I was coming down the 404 to Toronto out from Davis Dr.... there was not a car on the road for miles.. was around 1 AM.... I could have easily done 180km/h to get home and there was no danger. ..

the problem is that there are too many bad drivers, the government issues driving lisences like health cards, testing for new drivers is too easy and NO ONE knows how to judge oncoming traffic speeds... the other thing that bothers the government is having to spend $$$ for guard rails....

plain and simple... this is a cash cow... just like photo radar, red light radar... yaaadaa yaaaaddaaa... you name it... they are all the same shiot...

BigD
02-25-2008, 12:50 PM
Ivan, respectful disagreement is the foundation of teaching and learning. Just because I don't agree with you, it doesn't mean I'm trying to be disrespectful, nor do I take disagreement with myself as such.

Dimitry, I don't think you are understanding the otherside of the arguement, when we clearly understand yours.

I understand it, it's just a very simplistic and childish view. But like I said I'm not interested in debating this here anymore, it's just spinning wheels.

punnzzells
02-25-2008, 12:56 PM
The advantage is a threat. The point of laws like this is not to make money, it's to get people to slow down, because clearly the current fine system is not working. They're not interested in impounding your (the proverbial "your", not propane's :P) piece of shit, nor do they want your license. They want you to drive safely.

BigD,

That's crap man... why do cops give people tickets for flashing their lights to oncoming traffic to warn the oncoming cars of a speed trap then? That's crap man...

don't be fooled.... it's ALWAYS about money.... criminals don't pay fines.. the working stiffs do!

mike

enfield
02-25-2008, 05:30 PM
Gosh. What an interesting read. People getting angry, calling each other children/immature etc. Is that because of a law? If people disagree with the law then they should band together and ask for a Judicial Review regarding whether is law is a Charter violation. I am no lawyer but I would tend to think of this as a Charter violation. My understanding is that you can be charged under this law for having a modified automobile that is street legal even if you do not break any traffic speed/safety laws.

someguy
02-25-2008, 05:53 PM
i dont agree with the law simply for the fact that you're assumed guilty and get your license and car taken away, have to pay fees, and then go to court. If the same law was to change to where the vehicle/license is taken away AFTER conviction, sure it'd be more acceptable. Why do I get treated like a criminal, pay vast amounts of money, get my life disrupted, then even if I am found innocent, I have to fight back for the slim chance that they will reimburse my costs, not to mention the potential loss of income. It defies the very laws our government and country was built upon.

For those who are saying they agree with the laws, I'm sure if you get caught going 50 over and you have to experience the almighty bitchslap of the law, you would change your mind. But hey, thats just my opinion.

dtthiaga
02-25-2008, 08:21 PM
Far too many people are killed because of Drinking and Driving than "racing". Yet, Cops just dish out temporary suspensions for those infractions. In fact, Cops will let other Cops drive drunk! There were probably 40 Racing accidents in 5 Years, and over 10000 deaths because of Drinking & Driving in that same period.

You are innocent until proven guilty. Don't ever forget that. Anything other than this is a violation of our rights. There are far too many dirty cops on the streets to have this kind of law.

Donít listen to the nonsense and uneducated gibberish spoken by Sgt. Cam Wooley.

BimmerboyPH
02-25-2008, 08:39 PM
I don't buy that. I just can't see a cop making up over 50kph if it actually wasn't. I'd liek to see prrof that this is really happening, since if it IS happening, it needs to be addressed in a court other than traffic. This basically now comes into the realm of defimation of character and all sorts of other shit. If they are NOT fighting it, than that's their problem for taking it lying down.

Thats just it though, there is no way to prove it! It's there word against yours! Plain and simple, we, the public, are ****ed!

INFAMOU$
02-26-2008, 10:01 AM
This is quite the idea for street racing LOL..
http://www.wcnc.com/video/news-index.html?nvid=220060&shu=1

ScotcH
02-26-2008, 11:26 AM
Scotch... it could be true as BILL 203 gives the discretion to the officer to decide what is "racing" if the officer felt a car that was doing 5km/h over the limit was street racing.. then IMPOUNDED and license lost.. Anything that the officer finds to be as "stunting" results in the same thing.. I am sure since this law came into effect late last season that we will be hearing all kinds of stories this year and I am excited to see how they turn out.. There is no way a law like this can last..


I understand that is CAN happen. What I'm not buying is that it DOES happen. Until there are actual cases of people getting cars impounded for stupid reasons, I fully support this law (ie, for > 50kph). Once they start abusing it, then we can all start to bitch, and FIGHT it!

Toxic0n
02-28-2008, 04:04 AM
I don't buy that. I just can't see a cop making up over 50kph if it actually wasn't. I'd liek to see prrof that this is really happening, since if it IS happening, it needs to be addressed in a court other than traffic.
You can't see that? What if the person they pulled over is being the biggest dick/asshole to the cop? Stupid thing to do, of course, but should it land you in jail? With your car CRUSHED? Should this really be up to the discretion of a police officer? A guy the jump started his career by applying for a police job after working as a security guard for 2 years? From my personal experience, when it comes down to the cop's word versus yours, 100% of the time the judge will side with them. This is just mine and my friends' experiences though...
Also, Ivan? Dmitry? Just how many Russians are on here, exactly? :)

ScotcH
02-28-2008, 11:01 AM
You can't see that? What if the person they pulled over is being the biggest dick/asshole to the cop? Stupid thing to do, of course, but should it land you in jail? With your car CRUSHED? Should this really be up to the discretion of a police officer? A guy the jump started his career by applying for a police job after working as a security guard for 2 years? From my personal experience, when it comes down to the cop's word versus yours, 100% of the time the judge will side with them. This is just mine and my friends' experiences though...
Also, Ivan? Dmitry? Just how many Russians are on here, exactly? :)

That's the funny thing about perception. You ASSUME that's what will happen. I'm saying, until it DOES happen, there is no reason to bitch. Btw, where are you getting this CRUSHED thing from??? That's not in the new law, only impound.

just325iS
02-28-2008, 01:25 PM
We have to let the judge decide if we are guilty or not, not a cop!

This summer I don't care if the cop is a nice guy or an ass, I'm not stopping to find out!

INFAMOU$
02-28-2008, 03:04 PM
That's the funny thing about perception. You ASSUME that's what will happen. I'm saying, until it DOES happen, there is no reason to bitch. Btw, where are you getting this CRUSHED thing from??? That's not in the new law, only impound.

LOL they crushed 2 corvettes last year that were racing on hwy 400 to prove their point.. Now look at what South Carolina is doing.. i bet Wooley has a hard on for following suit!!
http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/stories/wcnc-022008-al-street_racing.10c8094a.html

hypno_nls1
02-28-2008, 03:51 PM
anyone who is defending this law in anyway is working for 5-0

Arash
02-28-2008, 04:05 PM
We have to let the judge decide if we are guilty or not, not a cop!

This summer I don't care if the cop is a nice guy or an ass, I'm not stopping to find out!

only problem with that is they'll take your plates and come to your house

propr'one
02-28-2008, 04:34 PM
scotch, no offense, but how old are you?

-i'm 20.
-i drive a bmw.
-i know my rights, and do not let cops violate them (cops ask to search the car, i say no. They try to do it anyway, i lock the door on them)


some people might say i'm "looking for trouble". Those people are ****ing ignorant. Just because i'm defending my rights doesn't mean i'm "looking for trouble". I have a right to privacy the same as others do, and i dont want it violated. However, because i'm young, drive a flashy car, and dont let cops push me around, i get discriminated by cops.

scotch, i think a more fair thing for you to say is you dont see cops giving YOU a ticket for 50 over if you really weren't doing 50 over. I'm not saying you personally can see a cop giving, lets say, me, a ticket for doing 50 over if i was doing 20 over but didn't let him search my car, but honestly, there isn't a single ****ing shred of me that doesn't believe that there are cops out there who would, and if this law was in place a few years ago, they would've surely done it to me.

e36_freak
02-28-2008, 04:59 PM
forget the whole argument of cops saying ur doing 50 over when your not... they can take your car impound it and take ur license if your doing 20 over and they say you were street racing...

there was a colission somewhere in toronto forgot where. i read in the paper. 2 cars "street racing" 1 car got into an accident. and was charged with street racing. police said there were doing atleast 20 km/h over the speed limit

INFAMOU$
02-28-2008, 05:56 PM
forget the whole argument of cops saying ur doing 50 over when your not... they can take your car impound it and take ur license if your doing 20 over and they say you were street racing...

there was a colission somewhere in toronto forgot where. i read in the paper. 2 cars "street racing" 1 car got into an accident. and was charged with street racing. police said there were doing atleast 20 km/h over the speed limit

Yeup and it was never proven to be street racing either... just a bad intersection where someone ran a red light.. gotta love the media. Just like the redrokit case with the civic that the victims were at fault as the driver was more than 3x the legal limit.. yet the modded civic doing 20 over was to blame.. it's all B.S.

just325iS
02-28-2008, 10:02 PM
only problem with that is they'll take your plates and come to your house


Plates are not registered to my house!

propr'one
02-28-2008, 10:19 PM
One peice of advice i can give to anyone. If you're at the scene of an accident, and the cop says he's gonna give you a racing ticket, immediately stop cooperating. Dont answer any more questions, dont talk to the cop anymore. Insist that your rights are being violated, and get a lawyer on the scene right away. Have the number of a lawyer in your car, as because of stupid ****ing laws, you can't actually get legal aid until you've been charged with a crime.

propr'one
02-28-2008, 10:23 PM
Plates are not registered to my house!
If you run from cops and get away, and you think the cops got your plate, follow someone into the underground of an apartment building. take a cab from the apartment building to public transit, take that home (or have someone pick you up from a location far from your home). Call the police, register the car as stolen.

you'll be without your car for a week or two, but you'll get away scott free.

not that i've ever done this/told anyone to do this/etc, but it'll work. You'll get your car back, and since its in the underground of an apartment building, its unlikely it will get towed or broken into.

tig
02-29-2008, 12:31 AM
If you run from cops and get away, and you think the cops got your plate, follow someone into the underground of an apartment building. take a cab from the apartment building to public transit, take that home (or have someone pick you up from a location far from your home). Call the police, register the car as stolen.

you'll be without your car for a week or two, but you'll get away scott free.

not that i've ever done this/told anyone to do this/etc, but it'll work. You'll get your car back, and since its in the underground of an apartment building, its unlikely it will get towed or broken into.

know ppl that have done this quiet a few times, mainly due to the fact that they had no insurance, it works, even not calling the cops ppl have gotten away u just say u had no idea the car was stolen and the cops cant do shit.
I have a few friends that are tow truck drivers and sometimes when we are just hanging around in timmies parking lots late nights in the summer lol we listen on their radios and u would be suprised have many police chases occur. quiet a few every night, and more than half get away, the cops will stop chasing at really high speeds, i have heard them page and say "the vechile is travelling at very high speeds so we are going to persuiting" especially if the vechicle gets of the highway and goes in neighbourhood roads they will almost always stop chasing

and btw i have never been in a chase myself and dont plan to so no stupid comments lol

someguy
02-29-2008, 01:18 AM
i dun think my e36 could outrun a cop car if it really came down to it...whats the top speed on the new chargers?

hypno_nls1
02-29-2008, 09:03 AM
i dun think my e36 could outrun a cop car if it really came down to it...whats the top speed on the new chargers?

unless your pushing like a z06 or m3 or osmething along those lines and up i wouldnt even suggest trying it =) attemtping to flea can give you some jail time and if african american a good old beat down

e36_freak
02-29-2008, 09:15 AM
unless your pushing like a z06 or m3 or osmething along those lines and up i wouldnt even suggest trying it =) attemtping to flea can give you some jail time and if african american a good old beat down

lol

or a bike

hypno_nls1
02-29-2008, 09:33 AM
lolz ya bikes, my best friends dad has been in a total of 7 chases wtih cops so far but they always stand no chance what soever

propr'one
02-29-2008, 09:37 AM
i've got my bmw to 240 or so (indicated around 250, but speedo's aren't accurate, its mechanically impossible for my car to go 250)

But you give me a turbo and a 6th gear, i'd get away.

ScotcH
02-29-2008, 12:03 PM
scotch, no offense, but how old are you?

-i'm 20.
-i drive a bmw.
-i know my rights, and do not let cops violate them (cops ask to search the car, i say no. They try to do it anyway, i lock the door on them)



Why would I be offended? I'm 35 (birthday was yesterday! *par-t*). If they want to search your vehicle, all they need is to make up probable cause and arrest you, then they have full right to search you and your car ... this was always the case, even before this law.

I dunno ... maybe TO is different and all cops are assholes and racists there. Just another reason why I will never live in that shit hole.

bmdbley'sBro
02-29-2008, 03:57 PM
all I know is this:


over 1300 drivers in ontario (probably closer to 1500 now) have been charged. Oct -to Jan 1st 3months!



At the min fine of $2K its around $2.6Mill - towers have raked in about $1.3Mill



Cops don't have dash mouted camera's in their cars. they can say whatever they want, if they 'need' to.

propr'one
02-29-2008, 09:39 PM
Happy belated scotch!

Yeah, but i'd rather be arrested and searched than not arrested and searched. 99% of cops dont fill out police reports when they search your car. I have expensive things in the car, and if i'm coming back from dropping off products to shops, i can have 1-2K in cash on me. I'd rather not have that stolen from me by a cop. If you arrest me, there will be a record, evidence as to why i was arrested, and if i want to, (and feel that i was wrongly arrested) i can (and definatly will) sue you for wrongful arrest.

ZiMMie
02-29-2008, 10:10 PM
that fact is, there is alot of people against this law.
and the fact that noone has stand to defend it makes me think that this LAW is here to stay so we should all deal with it OR DO SOMETHIN ABOUT it ASAP.
Maybe we should try what the calendonian's did

Caledonia, Ont. -- A group upset with policing in Caledonia since the aboriginal occupation of a former housing project are taking their ire to OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino's doorstep.

The activists are planning a protest Sunday at noon out front of Commissioner Fantino's home in Woodbridge, Ont.

The move is being condemned by Conservative Leader John Tory, who says the protest will do more harm than good. Mr. Tory says he and the police commissioner understand that public protests come with their jobs, but that their families and homes should be left out of it.

Organizer Merlyn Kinrade makes no apologies and says Commissioner Fantino has to realize he has to do something.

bimmer1989
03-01-2008, 03:32 PM
True but there could still be more tracks around.

Interesting read.